Having price adjustments



Chris Sulimay: On your mark, there’s the clap. It looks like we’re ready to get started. Hey everybody, welcome to the Shop Talk podcast brought to you by 124Go. I’m Chris Sulimay and I’m here with my good buddy


John Palmieri: John Palmieri


Chris Sulimay: Fantastic.


John Palmieri: Who haven’t changed his name yet.


Chris Sulimay: [laughter]


John Palmieri: I’m working on that.


Chris Sulimay: We have a super special guest with us today for a super special conversation. We are [00:00:30] here with Rebecca Eagleson, and she is one of our stylists downstairs in the Greyson location which is the Powerhouse Salon, in the 124 Group, one of the powerhouse salons inside this group but it’s our flagship location, 27 or 28 hard hitting stylists working down there, and you’ve got a long history with the company. We’re talking about a pretty delicate topic today, John, would you like to talk about the topic and introduce stuff for us?

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John Palmieri: Actually I want to talk about Rebecca’s hair [00:01:00]


Chris Sulimay and Rebecca Eagleson: [laughter]


John Palmieri: That is just, you can’t see it because you’re obviously you’re on a podcast but seriously, great hair.


Chris Sulimay: Rebecca’s got a beautiful hair.


Rebecca Eagleson: Thanks.


John Palmieri: She does, yup. Anyways, [inaudible] people that [inaudible]


Rebecca Eagleson: Yes.


John Palmieri: [inaudible] [laughter] We’re going to talk about a little bit about pricing today. It was really great, we want to give our shout out to the people from your Day Off who interviewed us a little while back.


Chris Sulimay: Yup. Cory and Tony, they introduced us on this topic and that podcast [00:01:30] ended up, it’s got a few thousands of  listened so far.


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: And I think we knew how important that conversation going to end up being but it really sparked a lot in us.


John Palmieri: Thank you both to those gentlemen, because we really appreciate the time you let us have on your podcast. But, Chris and I were thinking, we felt we need to go a ittle bit deeper on it, right? Because we’ve got an opportunity to do so. We’ve got Rebecca here today. To set this up a little bit, we just had a price increase, company-wide wide for all [00:02:00] six of our locations. We have a level system which means I should get promotion as your pricing goes up for your services. We just added three more higher level price tiers to our level system and our pricing has gone up on that end.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


John Palmieri: You kind of want to talk about that today. We’re going to talk about pricing, we’re going to talk about how stylists feel about it, we’re going to talk about how this role, and how you engage your customers in it. But basically, [00:02:30] What are your emotions behind it.


Chris Sulimay: Before, I’m going to interrupt you already, Rebecca. But you haven’t even had a chance to say a word


Rebecca Eagelson: [chuckle]


Chris Sulimay: and now I’m interrupting, but, for God sake, I’m watching you John.


John Palmieri: Rebecca gets awarded today [incomprehensible] [laughter] pretty big deal


Chris Sulimay: Well, I want to speak to that. The company-wide price increase, for a 130 hairdressers in a 12 level tiered system [00:03:00]  that we have, I guess I want to say that because if you’re a salon owner and you’re just getting into this, this was a massive undertaking that we took and I know it holds us back a lot, this fear, and Rebecca you’ll speak about this in a little bit, to share your not on the end fear scale or you’re only, or you can tolerate more that, but if you’re fearful, we swim in those waters and just walk through it


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: and it’s, with [00:03:30] success because there comes a point in time, where it’s the only way that you can grow your business, sometimes your productivity grows so big. Once your productivity grows to a certain level the only next right answer to grow your business is that with price adjustment.


Rebecca Eagleson: Right.


Chris Sulimay: Now, John, I want to give you back the questioning to her and I’m sorry for the interruptions, I thought that was important to say.


John Palmieri: Yup


Chris Sulimay: I’m going to stay away from it. [00:04:00]


John Palmieri and Rebecca Eagleson: [laughter]


Chris Sulimay: Andy keeps adjusting the microphone because I yell too much. John’s the loud one, that’s the thing


John Palmieri: [laughter]


Chris Sulimay: You’re the loud one.


John Palmieri: Let’s set up the story a little bit here, about Rebecca because I think Rebecca’s got a great story.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


John Palmieri: Rebecca has been one of our managers in one of our locations for quite a while and in our coaching, Rebecca came to me one day and “You know, I think I want to change” and this is a [00:04:30] side part of the story and I don’t want to focus too much on it. But it’s important to set up the conversation.


Chris Sulimay: [incomprehensible]


Rebecca Eagleson: Sure.


John Palmieri: The conversation was, I want to go back to being a stylist and I think, please talk about this, the thing you were sharing with me is part of being a manager is my phone rings at six or seven, eight o’clock at night.


Rebecca Eagleson: [chuckle]


Rebecca Eagleson: nine, 10, 11


John Palmieri: nine, 10, 11


Rebecca Eagleson: [laughter]


John Palmieri: Right? I got one of those texts at midnight. My wife want to know who it was.


Rebecca Eagleson: [laughter]


John Palmieri: But you said, I want to change and I want [00:05:00] to go back to being a stylist because when I’m done being a stylist, I’m done being a stylist. And you’ve got a young family, and she wants to spend time there. Let’s set it up with that conversation. Tell me a little more about that.


Rebecca Eagleson: Yeah. It was just about separating work as work and home is home. Keeping it a little more separate and making sure that my priorities were staying where they needed to be.


John Palmieri: For you now, you’ve been not behind the chair for how long?


Rebecca Eagleson: March, it will be a year.


John Palmieri: That’s all you’ve been behind the chair now, I mean


Rebecca Eagleson: Oh prior [00:05:30] when I was managing? As managing for four years, I’ve been, I was behind the chair for six, almost seven years before that.


John Palmieri: Six, seven years as a stylist


Chris Sulimay: In that location, you were in [incomprehensible] location


Rebecca Eagleson: Yes


Chris Sulimay: You grew up through there and then


Rebecca Eagleson: I started briefly at, when we were across from south, on 78th. And I was there for just right at the very very first part of my career and then transfer right there to [incomprehensible]


John Palmieri: You did a couple of things that are really interesting, one is you’re a stylist for [00:06:00] six, seven years, you’re a manager for four. Basically, you’re clientele has vaporized, but not only that, you decided not to work in the salon that you managed, you want the other side of town. Actually a couple of towns and went to work in a salon where you had no clients, no real community attachment and started fresh.


Rebecca Eagleson: Yeah.


John Palmieri: I think at that point, pricing is probable pretty sensitive to you,


Rebecca Eagleson: [00:06:30] Yeah, for sure. Very important.


Chris Sulimay: Talk about that process and just share a little bit about your experience in this past year, as we [incomprehensible]


Rebecca Eagleson: It’s been great and fantastic. I can’t be more grateful on the fact that I have grown l, I did not think that I will be where I am already and I’m super proud of that.


Chris Sulimay: Why is it faster this time around?


Rebecca Eagleson: I think my perspective has changed a lot on, as you start as a stylist when you’re just first starting out, you’re nervous and your clients can pick up on that, [00:07:00] you don’t know, you don’t have experience under your belt. You know need to know but you don’t have that experience and I think now going into it, not only I have experience I had behind the chair for all those years before, but then having a whole another level of customer service experience as a manager going into it from that aspect, I think it boosted my confidence, and I think it shows the client that I feel like I know what I’m talking about.


Chris Sulimay: Sure.


John Palmieri:  [incomprehensible] on that, tell me if what I’m hearing is correct. It wasn’t just that your technical skills were good, you expanded your customer service skills [00:07:30] while you were managing? And that helped you build?


Rebecca Eagleson: I think it’s as important, if not more important than your technical skills.


John Palmieri: Really? Okay.


Rebecca Eagleson: It’s just knowing your client and being, realizing their importance. I know the importance of every single client now because  I’ve seen it on the other side


John Palmieri: Sure


Rebecca Eagleson: and I think that’s a big part of it.


Chris Sulimay: That’s such a huge thing. The other day we are, this is so off topic and that’s just way off topic. The other day we are in a conversation with a group of students and we were talking about rapport building. [00:08:00] And somebody said to me, “Chris you’re so good at making people think that you care about them even though you don’t know them” and I said “No”,


John Palmieri and Rebecca Eagleson: [laughter]


Chris Sulimay: actually that’s not the skill


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: the skill is caring about them first.


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: Not that they think that I care about them, I actually care about them


Rebecca Eagleson: Right.


John Palmieri: I’m not pretending.


Rebecca Eagleson: Yes.


Chris Sulimay: This isn’t an act.


Rebecca Eagleson: Yeah.


Chris Sulimay: and this is why it comes through, what you just said relates [00:08:30]


Rebecca Eagleson: Yeah that’s true.


John Palmieri: I think that’s a quality you have, Rebecca, is that you and I’m going to overuse the word we all overuse, you have that authenticity about you when you show up with the impression that you care, it’s


Chris Sulimay: It’s not an impression


Rebecca Eagleson: Yeah, exactly.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah


Rebecca Eagleson: Thanks.


Chris Sulimay: Recently, as you’ve been growing, we’re now walking through this thing where we did a company-wide price increase.


Rebecca Eagleson: Sure


Chris Sulimay: I would argue that [00:09:00] your client, your because you are still in the growing process that, knowing that your growing, clients now and actively seeking more that to have a price increase when you’re in that phase could be a little bit more like “Oh, let’s think about this for a minute”


Rebecca Eagleson: Right.


Chris Sulimay: Just talk a little bit about that process and why you’re confident about it and how, what’s been working on so far


Rebecca Eagleson: Yeah, I think you just [00:09:30] have to step back and look at the big picture of of it.


Chris Sulimay: Can you give us some specifics on where you went from and to as well.


Rebecca Eagleson: Yes.


Chris Sulimay: [incomprehensible]


Rebecca Eagleson: My haircuts were 46, my colors were 58


Chris Sulimay: Yup.


Rebecca Eagleson: Just base color. I don’t think that foiling? and [incomprehensible]  changed too much, I know, [incomprehensible] did but I’m not sure. My haircuts runs to 46 to 48


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


Rebecca Eagleson: And I just think, long term it’s not that big of a difference to clients.


John Palmieri and Chris Sulimay: Right.


Rebecca Eagleson: As long as you present it to them in a way that we’re trying to [00:10:00] nicely let them know, we are at an end of a standard in our industry and we want to be holding up to that standard. I think letting them know that way that we’re not just putting up prices because that’s what we do every year, that there’s a reason behind it and it’s just a benefit the company as a whole.


Chris Sulimay: Sure.


John Palmieri: How did you, first of all did the customer say anything?


Rebecca Eagleson: No, they don’t care, honestly.


John Palmieri: I appreciate that but you said they don’t care [00:10:30], really?


Rebecca Eagleson: No, I mean, I haven’t have any push back yet. I really haven’t.


John Palmieri: Okay.


Rebecca Eagleson: They want to know how much, I let them know that we’ve had a small increase, and I think a lot of it, and I hope I’m not out stating by saying this, but I think a lot if it is letting them know the reason behind it too. Our fees go up every year, color fees go up every year, the salon as a whole, everything that we buy, goes up every year.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


Rebecca Eagleson: and it’s just part of the process and when you break it down to them and be real with them and let them know the why, and I haven’t have any push back at all. [00:11:00]


John Palmieri: Right. And it’s, you had a good experience


Rebecca Eagleson: Yes.


John Palmieri: Have there been others around you that haven’t had as of good experience.


Rebecca Eagleson: I haven’t heard any


Chris Sulimay: Or fear.


Rebecca Eagleson: I think, yeah, there’s always a fear in going, I have not had the experience to a  client for 10, 15, 20 years that has paid the same price.


Chris Sulimay: Right.


Rebecca Eagleson: I might be in a bit of an advantage on that side because my clients have only seen me for six or nine months. A small increase they might not be used to that yet.  


John Palmieri: Right.


Rebecca Eagleson: Some people [00:11:30] have clients for 10,15 years and this is a bigger deal to them. Yeah, I definitely have some fear about that and I get that too. For sure.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah and it’s interesting because this is and when we talked to the guys at your Day Off this conversation this first started out, basically, with the statement of, there’s an epidemic in our industry.


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: Probably in all industries. Anybody that prices themselves, I would say that, people aren’t great at pricing themselves.


John Palmieri: No.


Chris Sulimay: and the epidemic is fear [00:12:00]


Rebecca Eagleson: Yeah.


Chris Sulimay: And speaking of that twenty year stylist that you grew up with you knew me when I was 18, I still had hair, I no longer have hair.


Rebecca Eagleson: [laughter]


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: On the top of my head anyway, and I was that 18 year old kid I was cutting your hair for I don’t know whatever the price was then, 20 bucks or whatever it was. Now we’re well into 50, 60, 70, 80s [00:12:30].


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: And now I have to have this conversation with you and you still see me as the 18 year old kid.


John Palmieri and Rebecca Eagleson: Right.


Chris Sulimay: And if I haven’t grown up, on our last podcast we’re taking with [incomprehensible] we’re talking about, if I haven’t grown up in my ways and the way that I approach a conversation, the way that I approach you from the customer service standpoint and maybe that’s the conversation that involves to but if I haven’t grown up in a way I act [00:13:00] as a professional, not just in the technical skills


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: then what happens is my price increases really, probably not earned. But if I have made those changes and so if you’re listening and like it freaks you out and we’re back as price increase by the way that was a small one, she was an innocent bystander of a company-wide increase where the level that what she lives just happened to [00:13:30] only go up a few bucks. But


John Palmieri and Rebecca Eagleson: Right.


Chris Sulimay: if we were architecting her a price increase because of a promotion that would look more like a 10% increase would go from 48 dollars to 52ish, I’m making numbers up.


John Palmieri: Yeah. Here’s the interesting part, because I get to watch Rebecca’s numbers, right?


Chris Sulimay: Right.


John Palmieri: It’s not going to be that long from here


Chris Sulimay: No.


John Palmieri: that she’s going to have a promotion.


Chris Sulimay: Totally


John Palmieri: Right? She start off of at a company just a location with [00:14:00] a price, x number of months in, she’s already had a company-wide price increase and not too far down the road, she’s going to have a promotional increase, she’s going to have three price increases or three price levels in a span of a little over a year,


Chris Sulimay: Right.


John Palmieri: Right? Here’s the thing, I’ll bet your money that Rebecca will be really successful with those price increases and with those challenges because of something you already said, I think this begs back to fear challenge, right?


Chris Sulimay: Right.


John Palmieri: Rebecca’s not afraid to have this conversation.


Chris Sulimay: I’m so glad you just said that. Now talk to us about your philosophy. And tell me did that come from like when you’re a new stylist, were you not afraid that come from the fact that you are at that manager’s position and  you see from a higher level. Talk a little bit just hairdresser to hairdresser about why you think a price increase is important and your philosophy around that.


Rebecca Eagleson: Yeah. I definitely was afraid of them before I was a manager. I would freak out completely every time I have to tell a client [00:15:00] because they kind of, if you’ve seen a client since you were 18 and you charge them with bucks they do put you into that cubby


John Palmieri: Yeah.


Rebecca Eagleson: that’s where they see you at


Chris Sulimay: and you also keep yourself in that


Rebecca Eagleson: Absolutely. And I think that’s the biggest change for me and I think I’m very blessed to have this kind of perspective on it because I can look and see in the grand scheme of things, like, “Yeah”, my clients maybe sometimes we get upset when we would have these promotional increases but they were  still calm. And there’s a reason [00:15:30] for it.


John Palmieri: Yeah.


Rebecca Eagleson: You have a few that gets upset and maybe will fall off but that way for a client to appreciate your worth and those who will stand by you when you have promotions. I think it’s all about being genuine and being real with them and letting know the why behind it.


John Palmieri: Yeah, I think that’s the key point we’ve obviously touched on that is that I think when you’re open and can communicate the why, right?


Rebecca Eagleson: Right.


John Palmieri: The flipside of that is we are shy or [00:16:00] we are afraid, we don’t have the conversation, right?


Rebecca Eagleson: Right.


John Palmieri: and the customers now feel like, “Oh, you’re trying to pull a fast one on me, right? Maybe you’re not worth it and it’s less because of our skillset, it’s because we’re afraid to communicate and what it ends up doing is make the situation twice as bad.


Chris Sulimay: I have a question for you. Think back to a time when you’re managing and that you have to coach somebody through a promotion or a price increase [00:16:30] and they had some resistance, maybe, and they kind of came out on the other side of it. You don’t have to say people’s names


Rebecca Eagleson: Sure.


Chris Sulimay: But were there situations where you


Rebecca Eagleson: Absolutely.


Chris Sulimay: walk through


Rebecca Eagleson: It was just trying to encourage them to be confident in themselves, to kind of take them out of those situations say like, if you moved out of state and you went to a new salon and you’re already charging 60 dollars per haircut. Do you think you’re worth that? Most of the time, the answer is yes. “Yeah, I think I do pretty decent haircut. Why are you not worth [00:17:00] that here, why are you, the clients that you’ve seen for five, six years and just trying to build the confidence on the other side of it. I think it does start with us feeling confident. I think it’s really cool that my haircuts are 50 dollars, I love that. It think it’s just causing that confidence to happen, within ourselves so that we can portray that to our clients, so they feel like it’s worth it to pay that extra two or five bucks.


Chris Sulimay: Totally. Where do you live inside of me not knowing, where do you live inside our system and what’s going to be, [00:17:30] what’s your next two or three steps as far as that goes and what are the things, I guess what I want to get to the point of is, now I’m listening, I’m hearing some of Rebecca perspective on a price increase where I was afraid to do this for a while, myself.


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: When do I know, what are the things that we measure, John, as a company, as a manager, Rebecca, how do you know [00:18:00] when a stylist is ready for this?


John Palmieri: Well, for me, what I’m doing is I’m tracking their demand. How do we track demand? One, what’s the number of clients you do in a month, is that number going up or going down? Obviously, it fluctuates depending on the hours you work, right? Which is why we take a three month average, but is your book getting busy or is it not? I will look at productivity numbers, one of the things about our software is it will say, that up to 10 hours, you work to this week and I’m picking that number randomly and you were booked [00:18:30] eight, you have an 80% productivity rate. Is that number going up or is that number going down? If it’s going down, it’s probably not time for price increase.


Chris Sulimay: Right. Why?


John Palmieri: Well, because you’re already without a price increase making you less busy, something is going on there


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


John Palmieri: And


Chris Sulimay: You’re not keeping people.


John Palmieri: You’re not keeping people. We would dig a little deeper in your retention rates, some new client retention and return clients. Of all the new clients that come in the door [00:19:00], how many of them do you keep? 30%, 40%, return clients are you keeping 80, 90, 95% of them. We’re looking at a bunch of different metrics and we can spend another time on that. But I’m basically looking at your numbers and again, it isn’t about the numbers, per se, and I think sometimes we got caught up in that, “Oh your retention rate is this, and your productivity rate is that”. It’s not that, that I’m worried about, what I’m concerned about from a [00:19:30] coaching standpoint is what’s your story, right? Numbers to me tell a story. I just want to know your story.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


John Palmieri: Are you building


Chris Sulimay: Here’s the thing, whether you’re measuring those or not. Let’s say you’re independent, you’re working alone, you’re asking yourself this question, “when is the time for price increase?“. I’m looking on Instagram, I see the other people are charging, three hundred dollars for an average [incomprehensible] visit. That doesn’t mean that you’re a 300 dollar [incomprehensible] even if your work is as good as that person.


John Palmieri: Right. [00:20:00]


Chris Sulimay: What that person probably has is demand. Whether you’re cognizant of the fact that everything that we do kind of becomes a number.


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: If you counted these things and added them up, they all add up to a number much of the time it’s less than what I think in my head.


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: Unless, I’m aware of this at some point, other than how I feel in my intuition, I’m [00:20:30] making a judgement call. I’ve seen, you’ve seen, we’ve all seen for ice cream.


Rebecca Eagleson: [chuckle]


Chris Sulimay: Anyway


John Palmieri: Did you say ice-cream? [crosstalk] [laughter]


Chris Sulimay: But I’ve, we’ve all seen was I know, I don’t know where that came from


John Palmieri: I don’t know either.


Chris Sulimay: We’ve all seen


John Palmieri: Let’s talk about Chris’ [incomprehensible] [laughter]


Chris Sulimay: [incomprehensible]


John Palmieri: [laughter]


Chris Sulimay: We’ve all seen somebody have a price hike and this has happened, and anybody who have managed people has seen this [00:21:00]. Somebody has a price hike too soon, it literally will debilitate your clientele for a long time.


John Palmieri: For a long time, yeah.


Rebecca Eagleson: For sure, yeah.


Chris Sulimay: Because you’re unaware of what it takes to grow more people in your chair. You’re either not willing to do know a great referral program, nowadays you’re not super active in social media in a way that’s affecting your new clients, you’re not asking for referrals. All these things, you’re not able to keep clients. Now all I do is bump my price, [00:21:30] it’s a super short-term solution to a very long-term problem.


John Palmieri: It actually creates stagnation, right?


Chris Sulimay: Totally


John Palmieri: because here you are, you’re generally making numbers up here.


Chris Sulimay: Yup


John Palmieri: You’re making 50,000 dollars a year, and you’re making 50,000 dollars a year for a while, and you’re stuck there


Chris Sulimay: Yup.


John Palmieri: and you’re like let me just increase my prices


Chris Sulimay: Yup.


John Palmieri: I need to know your story, because if your story tells me that new clients who come in the door don’t stay with you


Chris Sulimay: Yup


John Palmieri: If your story [00:22:00] is that the long-term clients you have are slowly drifting away, now we’re going to give your price increase? Guess what? You’ll make 50,000 dollars again this year


Chris Sulimay: Yup.


John Palmieri: But only because you had the price increase


Chris Sulimay: That’s right.


John Palmieri: Because what you don’t know is, you just lost even more clients.


Chris Sulimay: Yup.


John Palmieri: Because you pushed them away, I’m not trying to be rude but they don’t see the value in you now.


Chris Sulimay: Yup, done anything different or new.


Rebecca Eagleson: Right.


John Palmieri: And now you’re trying to gain more for the same [00:22:30] non-value that I’m getting? I’m going someplace else.


Chris Sulimay: That brings out a great point. Rebecca talk a little bit about how you’ve changed as a stylist and what about your client experience makes you super confident in the value that you’re delivering, as opposed to you let’s say a four years behind the chair.


Rebecca Eagleson: Right. Well, I do think that it’s the experience of having a different angle of it, realizing the importance of every single client


John Palmieri: Yeah.


Rebecca Eagleson: and getting that client [00:23:00] back in the chair. And being kind of, you said something everybody [incomprehensible] that struck me so hard, being humble. Realizing that I appreciate that client on huge level and this is the essence of humility that I don’t think I had when I first started as a stylist, even four years into it. You get better and you get kind of cocky and you get a little bit more like, “Oh they can’t wait to see me”. Whereas now, I’m so grateful for each client that comes and sits in my chair, I’m willing to do [00:23:30] anything that takes them back.


John Palmieri: And because you’ve grown rapidly.


Rebecca Eagleson: It’s that amazing. I’m so grateful for it.


John Palmieri: Yeah. Well, a lot of that has to do with you.


Rebecca Eagleson: [chuckle]


John Palmieri: Take credit for the great job that you have done. We’ve talked about the importance of price increase, we’ve talked about how you become stagnant because it’s one thing to have a price increase.


Chris Sulimay: We’ve talked a little bit about that fear.


John Palmieri: Right, fear. I want to make this really clear. We’re big advocates of price [00:24:00] increases. But when the time comes


Chris Sulimay: When it’s right.


John Palmieri: What I’m going to ask you is if it’s not the time and if that’s not right, then let’s fix that.


Chris Sulimay: Yup.


John Palmieri: Whatever that is keeping you from being able to have that price increase,


Chris Sulimay: Yup.


John Palmieri: let’s work on that, whatever it may be.


Chris Sulimay: Totally. We have all these sophisticated systems we have the software, almost everybody is running a software now, but if you want to know what are the specific things


John Palmieri: Yup.


Chris Sulimay: Number one what’s your reten- are you seeing [00:24:30] repeat clients? 80% of the time on a regular basis?


John Palmieri: Correct.


Chris Sulimay: Is the time that your open, John mentioned hours, here what he means by that, is the time that you’re available behind the chair full 80% of the time by a client, either a repeat or a referral.


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: I don’t advocate for walk counting walkins or a new call in gift they got to put on your book or an accidental client, I don’t advocate counting those [00:25:00] other than to know that they are coming in and they count financially but to me they don’t count when I’m starting to look at price increase, I want to know who are my repeats, who are my referrals and then I want to know how many of them are rebooking. You can just count those up.


John Palmieri: Right.


Chris Sulimay: Right, I can count those and as long as I have strong client influx and


John Palmieri: Yup.


Chris Sulimay: I’ve got the people part handled, lot of times I’ll talk about people performance being the two sides that I [00:25:30] see in the business. Who are the people coming in and then what do I do with those people, as long as I master the people side, I’m okay for an influx.


John Palmieri: Yup.


Chris Sulimay: Every now and then, I’ll talk with the stylist who’s doing large number of haircuts but not enough chemical services or color yet.


John Palmieri: Right


Chris Sulimay: And I’ll say to them, bump your haircut price. Let’s leave your color price for now. And these are the types of decisions that smaller salons are [00:26:00] more nimble and can make


Rebecca Eagleson: Right.


Chris Sulimay: based on the individual basis, there’s all different kind of ways to do it but the idea is you have to know that you mastered the people part first. Once you do that, you can have incremental adjustments throughout your entire career. You should make more money, year over year, throughout your entire career.


John Palmieri: Let’s talk about some of those things that are important for price increases. For me, as I’m coaching stylist, I want to see an 80, 85% productivity, right?


Chris Sulimay: Right.


John Palmieri: I want to see that 80 to 85 percent of your time, more great, we should have this conversation sooner but 80, 85 percent of your hours of booked as you said with referrals and your regular clients.


Chris Sulimay: Yup.


John Palmieri: That’s one thing I’m going to look at. Two, are you generating new clients, yourself? Are you getting referrals? Because here’s the other thing, if we, one of the numbers in the industry is, if you’re going to raise prices [00:27:00] 10 percent, you’re going to lose about 10 percent of the client.


Chris Sulimay: You’re going to lose people.


Rebecca Eagleson: Right.


John Palmieri: Here’s the thing that’s a wash, right?


Chris Sulimay: Yup.


John Palmieri: I raise my prices 10 percent and my loss 10 percent and my clients who don’t see the value in me as a stylist.


Chris Sulimay: Same money less people.


John Palmieri: Same money less people, that’s okay.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


John Palmieri: But I didn’t want to be stagnant, I wanted to grow. Do you have a system in place to replace that 10 percent of the clients who didn’t quite see the value in your pricing and who you are as a stylist with people who do [00:27:30]


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


John Palmieri: We can talk about at length at another time. And I also want to see your retention rates and rebooking. Rebooking, I like to see that at around 70, 80 percent.


Rebecca Eagleson: Yeah


John Palmieri: If you can’t rebook the people who supposedly love you, 70 to 80 percent of your time


Chris Sulimay: Totally.


John Palmieri: there’s something we need to work out.


Chris Sulimay: There’s all kinds if fringe benefits around getting that person to set up an appointment before they leave.


Rebecca Eagleson: Sure.


John Palmieri: Yup. Rebecca other things that with this transition from [00:28:30] being a stylist to being a manager to going back to being a stylist, even changing location and starting all over again. Things that kind of surprised you or kind of stuck out for you in this journey that come to


Rebecca Eagleson: I think there’s a lot things that surprise me about just me as a stylist. You look at it, as I said before, and just a hundred different new ways that is really really eye opening. I think I have been surprised with just my vision of being a hairstylist now [00:28:30]. It has changed tremendously, but I mean I’m just, I’m loving it.


Chris Sulimay: That’s awesome.


John Palmieri: Great.


Chris Sulimay: Fantastic. Any closing words, comments you would like to say on this topic as far as to a stylist, we’re talking, we’ve got a bunch of stylists


Rebecca Eagleson: Just don’t be afraid it and know your worth and be confident in your worth. And as long as you are portraying that genuine care for your clients and knowing that you are what you’re worth, then sky’s the limit.


John Palmieri: I’m going to dog a little deeper on what you’re saying, if I could [00:29:00] hear what you’re saying. I’m going to put my stylist on right? You’re telling me not to be afraid, look at you when I say here are successful stylists maybe in the back of my mind, I don’t think I’m as good as you or as skilled as you are. I hear you, I understand you, make this logical sense but touch my heart a little bit. Tell me why I don’t need to be afraid.


Rebecca Eagleson: That’s the reason you are what you are. I think that just finding the ways, like find [00:29:30] ways to impress yourself, find ways. If you’re super good at something, dive into that. Updos is where I started, I love doing [incomprehensible]  styling and I dove to that and I thought that’s what I’m going to do for the rest of my life. To be just a formal stylist, but I ended up falling in love with so many things along the way because I’m building my own confidence. Fine, if your just a killer at [incomprehensible] then kill it at [incomprehensible] and find your love hair cutting along the way and just continue the repetition over and over and over again.


Chris Sulimay: I love what you [00:30:00]  just said. I want to say it again, find ways to impress yourself.


John Palmieri: Yeah, I love that.


Chris Sulimay: That is phenomenal.


John Palmieri: You know what [crosstalk] future podcast, we stole that from Rebecca today [crosstalk] [laughter]


Chris Sulimay: You’ll hear me saying that.


John Palmieri: That’s officially stolen.


Rebecca Eagleson: It’s fine, you can have it. It’s okay.


John Palmieri: Rebecca, thank you so much.


Rebecca Eagleson: Sure, thank you


John Palmieri: It has been a joy having you here.


Rebecca Eagleson: Thanks.


John Palmieri: We just went downstairs, you had a cancelation today, we were able to take advantage of that.


Rebecca Eagleson: Great.


John Palmieri: Thank you again for being here.


Rebecca Eagleson: Thank you, it’s fun.


Chris Sulimay: Fantastic. John, closing thoughts on this. [00:30:30]


John Palmieri: I’m really excited about this conversation today because I think to a lot of people, moving forward even with our own company. We just added, like I said, three more higher price levels than we ever had as a company before


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


John Palmieri: watch people’s journey to step into and to help them grow and help them support their families and the babies they’re having, right?


Rebecca Eagleson: [chuckle]


John Palmieri: And what that looks like and it makes me feel proud to be part of that process.


Rebecca Eagleson: [00:31:00] For sure.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah, that’s fantastic. And we’re super proud to be able to bring conversations like this to you. If you’re listening please click the subscribe button, if you have not, and check us out on Instagram @124.go. We’re really dedicated to just helping people in salons grow and we want to share that also I’ll ask you, if you do listen to this podcast, please take a screenshot of this as you’re listening and post it in your Instagram stories and tag us and [00:31:30] we will do the same back for you.


John Palmieri: One thing I want to add because it’s really important to us.


Chris Sulimay: Yup.


John Palmieri: If you’re on ITunes, write us a wicked nice review to help people.


Chris Sulimay and Rebecca Eagleson: Wicked


John Palmieri: Yeah, not a regular review, a wicked nice review.


Rebecca Eagleson: [laughter]


John Palmieri: Because if it’s not five stars I’m coming to your house.


Chris Sulimay, John Palmieri and Rebecca Eagleson: [laughter]


John Palmieri: But, yeah, if you could write us a great review to help people to find us in the podcast


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


John Palmieri: And that’s important.


Chris Sulimay: And we eat a lot so you don’t want us coming to your house


Rebecca Eagleson: [laughter]


Chris Sulimay: Thanks everybody for listening. By the way, I want to give a fast shout out to Art Studios Atlanta, to Atlanta Art Studios who I’ve known for years and I always have that backwards, who’s been taking care of sound for us and doing an amazing job. If you’re in the Atlanta market, you can find them at atlantaartstudios.com. Anyway, thanks everybody for listening, appreciate you and we’ll catch you on the next one. Peace.