Misty Weeks, Head Colorist @ SR Education



[00:00:00][Music playing]


Chris Sulimay: So how was that one? [inaudible]


John Palmieri: The one you did a little while ago- [inaudible]


Chris Sulimay: Yeah, fantastic. So I guess that means officially we can start?


John Palmieri:  We can start.


Chris Sulimay: Fantastic. So hi everybody. Welcome to the Shop Talk podcast  brought to you

by 124go. I’m your co host today, Chris Sulimay.  And as usual, [0:00:30] I’m sitting here with my great friend Mister-

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John Palmieri: John Palmieri.


Chris Sumilay: And we are really excited about this conversation. I actually… [chuckle]  Are we or am I? But this is a really exciting conversation –


John Palmieri: I am very excited  because we get to hang out with Misty Weeks. And I just learned  how she got that name.


Chris Sulimay: Well and she – I’m sure we’re going to have to share that.


John Palmieri: Yeah.


Chris Sulimay: But for those [crosstalk]  who are listening, before we allow Misty to you know like actually probably say something [0:01:00] intelligent as we ramble.


John Palmieri: Let us do  what we really do well and just completely occupy this conversation [laughing].


Chris Sulimay: Exactly, exactly. But Misty  is –


John Palmieri: Why are we even bringing guests in? [laughter]


Chris Sulimay:  I know it’s the truth.


John Palmieri: We just want somebody to  watch us do our podcast [laughter]. Misty, would you come and watch us do a podcast [laughter.


Chris Sulimay: So for those of you who don’t know, and this is a newer thing. Misty is the Head Colorist for SR Education.  And so as we sit and record [0:01:30] you know, you’ve probably realized that we’re on a theme. John and I came out to Thrive Sessions in Seattle. It’s the second of a series of independent hair shows that Sally Rogerson as well as Lindsay Guzman from Elle B. Extensions has been heading up. And I’ll tell you, the collection of artists that have been here this  week and yet the level of education has just been outstanding.


John Palmieri: Yeah. Misty taught a class yesterday – and today, both days- on speed foiling, correct? Which I loved.  And [0:02:00] I know you did too.


Chris Sulimay: Yes.


John Palmieri: So that’s been a great class, thank you very much. And  listening to you yesterday just peaked my interest to learn more.


Chris Sulimay: It’s the truth.


John Palmieri: And that’s why we invited you here today, yeah.


Chris Sulimay: So welcome Misty Weeks.


Misty Weeks: Thank you guys, very happy to be here thanks for having me.


Chris Sulimay: Fantastic. And so there’s a lot of different ways we can take this and I know we like to start in a certain place. So John, you want to take this  out?


John Palmieri: I’d like to  cause I always find this part interesting, why hair dressing? How did that happen?


Misty Weeks: [0:02:30] Oh, hairdressing happened when I was 15 years old.


John Palmieri: Right.


Misty Weeks: I knew that I wanted to do hair because I always played with my Barbie’s hair. I always played with my doll’s hair. I used food coloring to color the hair.  I used Nutella to color the hair. I was –


John Palmieri: I didn’t know you could do that.


Misty Weeks: I used pudding.  Yeah.


John Palmieri: Nutella?


Misty Weeks: on that plastic synthetic hair, you can put some Nutella on there and it turns it a little tanned.


John Palmieri:  Nice.


Misty Weeks: So  did that a lot and just knew when I went and got my first set of highlights when I was 15, everything just  clicked and I knew I [0:03:00] wanted to do hair specifically hair color.


John Palmieri: You know what, I’ve come up with another theory because Chris and I like to  just make theories up. Although I don’t really think we make them up, I think we believe them.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


John Palmieri: Yeah. Theory number one – New theory for today, you know you were going to be a hairdresser by the time you were 15.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah, that’s pretty solid. It’s pretty solid.


John Palmieri:  Yeah.  Because that’s – She is like the third person in two days who said 15. That was the number.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah that’s true. That’s awesome.


Misty Weeks:  Wow.


Chris Sulimay: And so how long did that take? Hw did that come into fruition?


Misty Weeks: After 15?


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


John Palmieri: Right.


Misty Weeks:  Oh [0:03:30] yeah. I actually went to high school in Omaha, Nebraska. And as I was going through my senior year, I was also going through beauty school. So I would  attend high school in the morning and then in the afternoon go through beauty school. So I graduated in June from high school, and four months later graduated from beauty school-


John Palmieri:  That’s awesome.


Misty Weeks: In ’93. So yeah, just went from there and –


John Palmieri: Haven’t looked back?


Misty Weeks: No. Haven’t looked back, moved out to Scottsdale, Arizona in 1996 and just started from there doing specifically color only and [0:04:00] specializing  in color.


Chris Sulimay: Oh wow. So you specialized in colors straight out of the gate in the salon. So you shared a little bit of your backstory,  your professional backstory in class yesterday. And why don’t you take us a little bit on some of that journey? Because you’ve done a lot. And I mean,  you’re an amazing educator. You know, we’ve got an eye for that. And I loved when you shared a little bit about your backstory and how about for the listeners?


Misty Weeks: Thank you, yeah. When I moved to Arizona, I wanted to find a place where I can specialize in color and it [0:04:30] was either Vidal Sassoon or Toni and Guy, they were new to the area. I went in to Vidal Sassoon and interviewed and I had to go through another two and a half years of apprentice training.  Really wasn’t looking for that at that time. And then went to Toni and Guy and they were just opening up at the fashion square mall. And so I got in as one of the first people that they hired. And I worked under a guy by the name of Mark Smith who was running the color department and did some training with him [0:05:00] and became the regional technical director of Toni and Guy in that area. So was that for 14 years there, did all the education on the color side. We ended up having six salons in that location. So headed up all of that. Yeah.


John Palmieri: Now I have a strange question to  to ask you, but it just popped over my head. We met Mr Tim Hartley this morning,  who was a huge influence in the Vidal Sassoon companies, right? We’ve obviously get to meet with you today. We’ve talked to Sally Rogerson before.[0:05:30]  A lot of the people we’ve been talking to over the last couple of days are what I would call “classic” Vidal Sassoon folks. I have a suspicion- although I could be completely wrong, but – that Vidal Sassoon training was no walk in the park. And I wonder – I want to get your opinion on this- do you think that that level of training that you went through is  something that still exist ? Would the hairdresser of [0:06:00 ] today put up with that level of, and I use the word “put up” with loosely, put up with that level of intensity? I’m wondering if that’s a time that doesn’t exist anymore? And I see you shaking your head [crosstalk]. So talk about that a little bit if you could.


Misty Weeks: Because Toni and Guy training is  just as extensive as Vidal Sassoon. One of the reasons that me and my business partner, Karen Trahan decided to leave. She headed up all the education on the cutting side for 14 [0:06:30] years. The reason we decided, we were finding that the new people that were coming into the company did not have the heart or the will or the dedication to go through that training. You know, it was kind of like we had to create a consultation class. They didn’t know how to talk to people because everything was all on the phone and texting. So we felt like we weren’t giving back to the people that really wanted it. So it was like time for us to go out and do our own independent and become independent educators ourselves.


John Palmieri: So you see that, you still see that there are [0:07:00] people and let’s toss some bad vocabulary around. You still see that there are millennials or gen Z  because we paint the world with a wide brush. Do you still see there’s a demand for that level of intensity and education with the younger styles and that the young adults coming out of beauty school?


Misty Weeks: There’s a demand but it’s a small percentage.


John Palmieri: Really?


Misty Weeks: Yes.


Chris Sulimay: Well, you know I mean arguably so. This is something that I was saying a lot lately. I’m ready to cut  slack for it at some point if [0:07:30] somebody calls me out for it. But I’m caught on record saying, you know, 90 percent of the people really make about 10 percent of the impact. 10 percent of the people make about 90 percent of the impact.

And you know, I’ll argue that if you’re listening to this podcast right now, you’re  a 10 percenter. You’re somebody who is interested and you’re going to listen to our silly, you know, conversations in order to hear- Hoping to hear something that’s going to take your [0:08:00] career to a level a little bit higher. But I love the fact that we’re hearing this more and more and more lately. We’re  probably experiencing some transition inside of bringing people out of the, you know, the Keune academy into the world. And we’re dancing that dance of the right amount of training to get somebody from out of school to confident to own the floor as quickly as possible [0:08:30] in something that they can… Like it’s  palpable for a newer generation. And so since that time you’ve left, you know, that Toni and Guy World and you’ve been doing independent education for how long has that been now?


Misty Weeks: Eight years.


Chris Sulimay: About eight years now. So share maybe – God, we got into this really fast I feel like we’re on a first date and we’re  already making out [laughter]. But like share some of the differences you know, an approach that you all have discovered [0:09:00] in that  eight years that are helping to bridge that gap from somebody who wants to get in but doesn’t want to take that militant style training that we used to kind of love we thrived on.


Misty Weeks: Right, we used to live on that, couldn’t wait till model night on Tuesday night at eight o’ clock.  So it was really hard in the beginning cause me and Karen, we had just left and we were like, “We need a break from teaching and education.” but we found like we still wanted to be a part of it, just not as every Tuesday night from four to nine. [0:09:30] So what we did is we went around to the local salons and basically told them that we had left the company. We’re still doing education. “If you guys would like to have us in for a night in your salon, let us know.” Karen, I know stayed out of it a little bit longer than I did, but I jumped right into it with local salons, Salon Joelle and up in North Scottsdale and they would have me out  there like once a month. And then I also did some training with Pizzazz Salon out here in Seattle. I was out there at least twice a year with Lisa [0:10:00] because she was one of the accounts I had when I was with Toni and Guy. And I let her know that I left, but I was still independent and she still wanted to hire me.


So that’s been great. And what’s awesome about that going into a salon environment is that they have the eager beavers  that really want to learn, really want the education. So that makes it even more exciting as an educator to go teach you know, versus when I, we were at the end of our career at Toni and Guy and they had to be there. You know, just like going into beauty school.  You’ve got your percentage that really [0:10:30] wants to be there and then the other percent that’s just there.


John Palmieri: Aside from where you deliver it,is how you’re going to deliver education different now?


Misty Weeks: A little bit. It’s a little bit more relaxed, not so technical. You know, basically trying to always have a bullet point of how to relate it to the salon, how to relate it back to behind the chair because that’s where they live 50, 60 hours a week.  So.


Chris Sulimay:  One of the things that we do in our own time is help salons to be  a salon, right? And a part and piece of that is training in the salon and having those discussions. And so, you know, I mean, you’ve got such an extensive background not only you know,  being an educator but in developing education. What are some of the things that you’re seeing when you go into a salon and you help them to, you know, be that one day. But what are some of the things that you are seeing that’s working in salon as far as education, “I’m a salon owner and I want to train people.” ?


Misty Weeks: [00:11:30] Like so what are some of the things that they’re getting- I’m seeing that they’re getting out of it?  


Chris Sulimay:  Yeah. Well they might be getting out of it and maybe even some of your suggestions for a training in general, that kind of –


Misty Weeks:  Right, for them to keep on ongoing training inside the salon?


John Palmieri: Cause that’s the challenge that we’re not getting it from the manufacturers anymore, right? Or  if we do get it from the manufacturers it’s just too expensive or too far apart.


Chris Sulimay and Misty Weeks: Right.


John Palmieri: So.


Misty Weeks; You have to sell so much retail to get that in –


John Palmieri; Exactly.


Misty Weeks: That class in there.  Absolutely. I’m seeing that if you, after I leave the salon, I’ll sit down with the manager and tell them, “We need, you need to create something, whether it be monthly or quarterly. Or there needs to be some type of show. It can be a little test out inside of your salon. It could be maybe your newcomers coming in and giving them a specific technique to test out on. Or to put a little mini show on because they’re excited about the hair and the makeup and presentation and the  music and all of that.” So if they can get that buzz inside the salon after I’ve left and continue it on, then that’s the best part.


John Palmieri: [00:12:30 ] So it’s not just, “Hey, you did this Balayage technique.” It’s “You did  this Balayage technique, you set the hair, you put the makeup on, you dressed them, you picked the music.

You want them to look at this from a  completely- I’m going to use a word that probably doesn’t fit but I will use it anyway-  holistic standpoint, right?


Misty Weeks: Right.


John Palmieri:  I want the whole package.


Misty Weeks: Right.


John Palmieri:  I want you to show me what your vision was. I want you to show me what was in your head and how you manifested it into real life, yeah.


Misty Weeks: What inspired you to get to that look?


John Palmieri: Is that a challenge for younger stylists  coming out of school, do you think?


Misty Weeks: [00:13:00] It can be, especially like they may be really strong in the makeup department or in the styling and fashion department, but need help maybe in the verbal or how to present it. You know, talking in front of people. So just we’re working on that area or that aspect when they’re testing out. It just helps them become a better speaker. And it goes back behind the chair, it helps them with their clients.


John Palmieri: Let’s talk a little bit about that some more. Because I know that with our school and our new students coming out of the school and coming into our salons and we’ve got, you know, [00:13:30] 130 hairdressers, the six locations and we get, I know we have the same challenge, which is we have the students coming out of school and for many, not for all, but for many there’s a real difficulty in learning how to talk to people, how to make that emotional connection with them to dig a little deeper, to  create that holistic piece that we just kinda talked about, that [incomprehensible] piece.

You know, talk a little bit about that how you reach people and advice you want to give for salon owners or managers on how to [00:14:00] create that in their environments? Because I think they say the same thing, right? “Dang kids all they do is text all day, no wonder that they don’t know how to talk  to people.” But there’s more to it than that.


Misty Weeks: Oh yeah.  Pulling them out and getting to know them as an employer, as a person one on one I think is good. But getting them to actually speak in front of people, well maybe is  part of their 8 am Friday morning meeting or their monthly salon meeting and give them a little you know [incomprehensible] that they need to [00:14:30] talk about. Like maybe they’re going to talk about the cleaning policy in the salon. But that way they’re up and they’re talking. Maybe they’re only talking to for two or three minutes, but it breaks that ice. It makes them start to feel comfortable and it just opens up the door where they’re able to talk more and more.


John Palmieri: Is there a part of the programs you use or when you create, do you make it a part of the program?


Misty Weeks: Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially voice projection, eye contact. You know, being able to connect with your audience. Absolutely.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah. And you did that really… I mean, I’m just, [0:15:00]  as you’re talking I’m reflecting back to yesterday. And you know, that was a piece in this independent education kind of revolution that we’re seeing happening or evolution, I should say right?  It’s not a war. It’s we’re just all figuring it out as we go. One of the things that coming from a corporate trained education background personally, I’ll notice differences between, “Oh, this person’s really a talented hairdresser, but they don’t know how to deliver the message.” Or “They didn’t know how to connect.” Or “The audience [0:15:30] led them in circles by asking questions that they weren’t able to feel properly.” And then you have somebody like yourself who has that, not only the foundational skill set but also the foundational training in projection. And if I’m not mistaken, that TG background, that’s one of the things I know about that culture is there is a lot of- am I wrong about what I’m saying?


Misty Weeks: No you’re right.


Chris Sulimay: Okay, yeah.


Misty Weeks: You’re spot on.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah.


Misty Weeks: We go through a series of how to project your voice, [0:16:00] how to make eye contact, how to connect with your audience.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah. Share some of those little tips on that, yeah.


Misty Weeks: Basically, voice tone. You know, they’d record us and then have us listen back to see how our voice tone is. And then if you’re looking over the audience they’ll be like, you know, going through workshops like that where they’re waving their hands like, “No, look at me. Look at me.” We would spend a good hour at that at our team meetings when we were traveling or doing shows. That was one of the main things. And then presentation skills, knowing how to show your models and knowing how to show your mannequin head. I spent a lot of time [0:16:30] at Toni and Guy with that.


John Palmieri: One of the things we do at the salons is  I might be coaching younger staff they’re beginning level, maybe a level two stylist and they’re struggling a little bit. You know and often it’s in the consultation area or their people skills. And one of the things I’ll often ask is, you know, “Before your client comes in take your cell phone, put it on video record. Put it on the station.  Put up, you know, a bottle of hairspray in front of it so the client doesn’t know.” You know, “Do the backside, don’t do the front sides that are watching themselves.” Right? They don’t know it’s on.


Misty Weeks: Right.


John Palmieri: [0:17:00] “And I want you to videotape your whole entire experience with your guests. I don’t even need to see it, but I want you to watch it and tell me what you see.” And they’re always amazed when they are like,  “John I did that.” Usually it takes me two or three times to ask them before they actually get the nerve to do it.


Misty Weeks: That’s great.


John Palmieri: Yeah. But they always say the same thing. Like “I did not realize. I did not  shut up the whole entire time.” “I didn’t listen to a word that he said.” Or the opposite. “I didn’t talk at all.” Right? “I sounded like a dope.”  Now of course we can all be [00:17:30] self critical. But it’s amazing what you can learn you know, with a video camera, unconsciously video-taping yourself to see what you can learn.

And what  your presentational skills looks like what your interaction with the customer is, that’s such a huge piece.


Chris Sulimay:  So fast forward a little bit. You’re now the  Director Of Color for Sally Rogerson in SR Education,  a wonderful company. We actually are [crosstalk] [incomprehensible] systems inside of our salons as well.


John Palmieri: And the school.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah, that’s right. [0:18:00] Tell us how this happened?


Misty Weeks: Oh my gosh.


Chris Sulimay: So this is a newer –


Misty Weeks: Very new, yeah.  September of last year is when I met Sally.  And what happened was Karen, my business partner she took one of  Sally’s classes in January. And after Sally saw Karen and knew Karen’s background, she actually sat down with Karen and said, “How would you like to join the team?”  And Karen said, “That’d be great.” So Karen joined the team and she does the razor cutting in there with Kal. And [0:18:30] inside the salon she was all excited about it. And now she had stepped out of education in independent teaching. I was still doing it, so I was like, “This is great. I need to meet Sally. I’d love to meet Sally, what’s their color program like?””Oh, she only really does cutting.”  “Oh, well yeah. I really need to meet Sally.”

So then I go in and meet her at one of her classes that Karen’s teaching with her. And I met her afterwards and said, “I would be very interested to talk to you about color, be a part of your team.” So me and her interviewed and talked two or three times [0:19:00] then  I went down to Atlanta, Georgia and went through her cutting her foundations class.


John Palmieri: Wow great.


Misty Weeks: Mind you, I haven’t cut hair in a really long time, but I  was able to catch onto it pretty quickly. You know, and in my mind I kept thinking, “Oh, with this L1 it needs this color. With this L2  it needs this color.”


John Palmieri: Oh yeah? So you’re dissecting the whole thing?


Misty Weeks: I am.


John Palmieri: Yeah.


Misty Weeks: I am. And I sat down with Sally and said “We’ve   got to come up with it because there’s a need and the demand on the color side.” And she agreed and the rest is history. So we are excited to continue to create more techniques to go with the program. [0:19:30] Yeah.


Chris Sulimay: That’s amazing.


Misty Weeks: Yeah, I’m excited.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah. So I mean super fad like it’s like a shotgun wedding.


Misty Weeks: Yeah [laughter].


Chris Sulimay: And you know now we’re here. Right?


John Palmieri: You don’t know this when you need me [laughter]


Chris Sulimay: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.


Misty Weeks: Don’t say that to her, but yes. [laughter]


Chris Sulimay: So talk to us a little bit about hair color. What are some of the things you’re doing now and what’s progressed since then and maybe what are some things that you’re excited about?


Misty Weeks: Wll, me and her have sat down and we’ve already taking her class, her [0:20:00] foundations cutting and broken it down to what color needs to go into that program. Once the academy opens for beauty school students, we’ve actually gone through that curriculum as well. So right now just waiting for the beauty school to open up and then we’ll be able to implement that with the cosmetology students.


John Palmieri:  So there’s a question that comes off from my statement. So you’re going to teach the students that there’s this hair cutting  technique we’ll call it an L1, right?


Misty Weeks: Yeah.


John Palmieri:  And here are colored techniques that go [0:20:30] along with this haircut because of the way it lays on the head, the way it flows the way it moves  etc.


Misty Weeks: Absolutely.


John Palmieri: Is that a missing piece do you think from most of our industry as a whole? Cause I don’t think- Because if I think about it. I don’t think a lot of people do that, right?


Chris Sulimay: Not anymore.


Misty Weeks: I think from  [crosstalk] a basic like a –


John Palmieri: We don’t do that anymore?


Chris Sulimay and Misty Weeks: Right.


Misty Weeks: From a cosmetology school standpoint, you definitely don’t have that. You don’t learn that until after, at least in the past until after you’ve  gone on. But then you get three or four different techniques and you kind of get [00:21:00] discombobulated and maybe put all four of them together on one haircut and it doesn’t give you the full benefit of the total look . So that’s what we’re excited about is being able to pair it up. And it’d be simple and easy and quick, and they’re able to get the total look. So yeah, that’s going on. I’ve also got some classes coming up at in her six week course, which are for licensed hairdressers that have  maybe been out of the industry or they’ve only been specializing in cutting and they want to learn more about color. I’m coming in and doing two days a week on [00:21:30] that to teach them some simple techniques.


John Palmieri: So is that like a  six week bootcamp? You’re there for the whole six weeks?


Misty Weeks: Yes.


John Palmieri:  That’s pretty intense.


Chris Sulimay: Yes.


Misty Weeks: Six weeks, yeah.


Chris Sulimay: That’s awesome. So we took speed foiling yesterday. You know, a great technique. Something that we felt like it was really usable, salonable.  Salon worthy as I like to say. What are some other techniques? Or what are some, I guess I want to say, you know, everybody always wants to know what trends or  what’s happening. Kind of give us a snapshot of your [00:22:00] philosophy on color. Why did you choose speed foiling for this seminar? What are some other things maybe in your back pocket that you think are important for people that are doing hair color or wanting to know what’s coming to think about and maybe what are you doing now?


Misty Weeks: Right. The speed foiling came along, Sally had asked me to come up with a technique class and I thought speed foiling is something inside of the salon that takes the – foiling in general, takes the most time.  And then the Balayage kind of came out and was happening. It’s starting to [0:22:30] die down a little bit. And it’s about bridging the gap between Balayage and technical foil highlighting and and bridging the gap between it. And at the same time being quick about it. You know, I’m always told, “You’re so quick.”  I book on the hour every hour and then they go to Karen for a haircut. So I thought, “How can I make this easy for them?” So I just took what I do inside of the salon and created it into a technique that can be used as a traditional highlight or it can be used as a Balayage type of technique and staying off of the [00:23:00]  root area. Or it can be used as an Ombre technique, or it can be used as just a toning technique if you want.


So that’s how that came to fruition. She’s also got me right now working on some advanced highlighting techniques, a little bit more progressive, a little more bold colors, a little bit more blocky colors as well. So inside the salon on my daily basis, I’m doing a lot of organic lived in feel of hair color, kind of like what we did in the speed foiling class where we’re leaving  the depth of the root area popping color through the mid [0:23:30] lengths and ends. A little bit more easy maintenance on clients. I’m feeling now a days with clients they’re not wanting to book every four to six weeks. They’re wanting to go six to 10 to 12 weeks, which isn’t good for our pocket books, but it’s still looking great on my client. And I can charge a little bit more when you’re adding that much to the hair as well. But no  there’s a lot of techniques coming down the pipe. Me and Sally are still on the drawing board doing some stuff.


John Palmieri: Just for to  frame a reference the speed foiling class yesterday was 23 foils in the head, is that [00:24:00] correct?


Misty Weeks: Yes.


John Palmieri:  What I liked about that  class aside from the fact that you only needed  23 foils is it was really thought out where those foils go, it wasn’t just, “Let’s put three on this side, three on this side that looks like you’ve foiled the whole head.” It was very purposeful. Each foil seem to have a place on the head where it lived.  You guys made it very clear the bone structure and the head shape was really important at what when you did the parting. And how does that happen? How did you get [0:24:30] there?


Misty Weeks: I guess it was just over time of doing so many foils and highlights and really knowing the head shape on clients and on people in general and knowing where those pops of color, where you want them to fall and where they come from the scalp. So doing that and then this is also something that we wanted to maybe marry into the L1 haircut as well. So  someone with a one length can do this, or even some with longer layers could do this. But knowing the head shape, knowing where you’re seeing the colors fall and [00:25:00] how the hair falls on the head is how we created the lines in sections.


Chris Sulimay: I’m super happy that this conversation is starting to come back into vogue.


John Palmieri: What conversation?


Chris Sulimay: The conversation of head shape and  bone structure. And the reason why is-  You know, things go around, right?


Misty Weeks: Yeah.


Chris Sulimay: But it’s been a while since I’ve heard people talking about that.  I think we got so technique driven as a -And maybe it’s just through my lens. [0:25:30] I don’t know. You know, I only know what I know. But it feels like it’s been a while since anybody’s mentioned “Oh by the way, there’s a client sitting underneath your collar.”  They have a certain facial shape structure, there’s lots of different ways you can skin that cat. But the reality is there’s some you know, some laws that are principally pretty based that we can all agree on. And maybe since Vivid’s came in- which we love [00:26:00], –  it was almost just about putting color where we wanted to put it because we felt like it. And you know, now we’re having a greater conversation again around suitability for the client and suitability between haircut and color placement, that those things work together. And I think it’s a really important thing to learn and talk about. So share with us a little bit about that, maybe bone  structure and placement and –


Misty Weeks: Oh yeah it’s very important  especially how the client wears their [00:26:30] hair also. You have to take that in consideration. But everybody’s head shape is  different, you know. Yes we’re working on a round head shape, but knowing where color is going to fall and how it’s going to lay is very important. And I agree with you. We’ve been so mechanical and technical. You go to a show, you learn a technique you know, and think about what you’re putting in  on you just know. Take a horizontal line here, put in four foils –


Chris Sulimay: Right, right.


Misty Weeks:  But not knowing where the end result is going to be. And so it’s nice to bring that back into, cause that’s what it is. it’s a person under there [00:27:00].  [crosstalk] And she’s going to be moving her head and wearing the colors. So you want to know where it’s going to lay and fall in conjunction with how it’s cut.  I think i it’s got to be both.


John Palmieri: So it was funny I wanted to add onto that because when I was taking your class yesterday, the thing that impressed me was you know, the thought process, the bone structure, the head shape. But in my head, because  you have given me that, you know reminded me is probably a better word for it because I’m a cutter by nature, coloring is not my strong point. [00:27:30] And it just kind of reminded me, cause the only person whose hair I still foil is  my wife’s, okay? I was dissecting your technique yesterday thinking, “Where can I put more foils in?” Because my wife prefers being you know, blonde by highlight, right?


Misty Weeks:  Right, right.


John Palmieri: She doesn’t want the Lived-In look.


Misty Weeks: Okay [laughter].


John Palmieri:  She wants to be blond.


Chris Sulimay: By highlight.


John Palmieri: Yeah. If it’s Lived-In, I did it wrong [laughter].


Chris Sulimay: Yeah that’s called Roots.


Misty Weeks:  Yes, that’s called ID my hair color.


Chris Sulimay: [00:28:00] That’s right, that’s right.


John Palmieri: Yeah. That’s like, “Baby, do I have to go to a salon to get this done now?” [laughter] That’s what that’s called. But anyways, we digressed. But I think that’s the great tool that that education brings is that you know, you get to do that. You get the pictures from your head and say, “You know what, I’m going to put a couple more foils here.”  And I love – You shared this yesterday, “You know what, you could put low lights in this if you want. ” “You were doing some teasing and coloring the ends.” You know it kind of even if someone who doesn’t do color, I’m thinking about, “Hey, how do I take this and personalize it?


Misty Weeks: That’s right.


John Palmieri: “How do I take this to fit my wife’s hair? ” because when I get home, she’s already asked me [crosstalk] through text messages over the weekend. When you get home I need my color done. Well, tell her that. And I think that is awesome. If you can, as  a new hairdresser coming into the industry, if you can learn that upfront and then start to do your own creations based on that fundamental knowledge of the head shape, what you want to put where and how it’s going to look.


Misty Weeks: That’s  great. That’s what my class was about, so I’m glad that’s what you got [crosstalk]. That’s awesome! [0:29:00] I wanted you to leave there feeling like you could  create to that map that I gave you.


John Palmieri:  I did.


Misty Weeks: Anything you wanted but yet gave you the foundations to put in 23 foils. But then you could add or take away if you wanted as well.


John Palmieri:  Yeah, thank you.


Chris Sulimay: Yes. So that’s awesome, reverse engineer… Now, I don’t know if I heard you say this or I hallucinated you said it. But at some point I think we mentioned and it was it was a technique class. But I think you- We mentioned  consultation. You know, just up front [00:29:30] around you know. It depends on what the guest is looking for. I mean, you can place it here, you can do this. Or if she was going to part side or center. Reverse engineer a little. And I guess I’ll ask.  First of all, do you agree that the consultation is an enormous part of hair color?


Misty Weeks: Absolutely. Yes.


Chris Sulimay:  So now –


John Palmieri: But what would you have  done if she said no [laughter]?  


Chris Sulimay:  I don’t know. I wanted to make sure I was –


John Palmieri: For a minute there I was like, ” Woah. Wait, what if she says no?” [laughter].


Chris Sulimay:  We’ve been in a lot of [00:30:00] classes this week and I wanted to make sure I had the right one in my head first of all.


John Palmieri:  Now Misty says consultations are a waste of time.


Chris Sulimay: Right.


John Palmieri: You know what I’m saying? You’ve got work to do.


Chris Sulimay: You know, we all have our own opinions, right?


Misty Weeks: [incomprehensible] be fun. We don’t need a consultation.


Chris Sulimay: Exactly.


John Palmieri; No, no. We wouldn’t. I know what’s best for you.


Chris Sulimay: So now that we’re there, share a little bit about the importance of that conversation. What are some key points that you touched on or when you’re sharing with people you know, about hair color? How do you approach that? Because you said one thing that I [0:30:30] believe is true which is hand painting is evolving.

Everybody agrees that it’s evolved into you know even people that were just hand painters are now foiling to get to the level that we need to get to or adding those brighter… So that will continue to evolve. It’ll take time, right? As trends evolve over four to six to 10 years. But talk a little bit about how you’re inviting that into your consultation. How are you educating the guest [00:31:00] on how many sittings it might take to get to a look  or?


Misty Weeks: Yeah absolutely. I mean, consultations are so important because you’ve got to figure out obviously what the client’s desires and wants are. If it is  even realistic to get there in one or two or three sittings. You know, with this day and age with social media and all the filters that are on the phone with the pictures with hair color. I ran into a lot of people bringing in those pictures and they’re  just happy to dissect those pictures down even more. And letting them know, “Yes this is achievable[00:31:30] but I need to see you in three to four visits and each visit is going to be this amount of money. You know, I can’t just sit here for seven hours and give you this look, you know. ” so that’s important. Also, what you said earlier about people that are traditional highlighters are now kind of breaking out the box and getting into more freehand techniques and people that are doing freehand techniques are starting to pick up those foils again –


Chris Sulimay: Yeah it’s all meshing together, right?


Misty Weeks:  So what’s great about that is it’s bringing them together. It’s marrying those two two techniques together which I think is awesome. Because [00:32:00] when I went to  beauty school I learned Balayage and I learned the back combing and just see it come back again full circle after so many years it’s like, “Wow I am this is happening again.”


But what’s great about it now is it’s melding into each other, the foil techniques with the Balayage techniques. But yeah,  consultation I think is one of the most key elements. You’ve got to find out their desired result. You’ve got to find out if it’s even achievable. Clients bring me pictures in  all the time and I cover up the face and say, “I can give you the color, but I can’t give you the face.” [00:32:30] Otherwise, I wouldn’t be doing hair color.


John Palmieri:  I love the whole aspect of the two meshing together, I was in  the salon not too long ago and one of our newer stylist she’s only been a stylist  for like a little over a year. But she’s at that location, she is known as the Baby Light expert right? Which cracks me up because everybody in the room is like, Balayage queens, right? Or Kings, King and Queens. They can Balyage all day long. What is that? What foils?  You could do that? Well, Yeah. Actually you can. [00:33:00][laughter] But that just makes me – I’m like, “This is nuts, you know.” If you want Babylights you got to go see her cause she knows how to do it.


Chris Sulimay: And  it just goes to show you that we tend to grasp on to the first thing that we learn, right? So you know, all the time, I’ll meet somebody in hair school. In hair school, fourth month in. And I’ll say to them, it’s a leading question. But I’ll say, “So you know, what’s your strong point so far? What do you specialize in?” And oftentimes, it will either be color or cut ,right? Because they pick, and it’s like, “So I’m three months into my entire career that could last  40 years, and in three months, I’ve decided I’m a cutter or I’m a colorist [laughter].


Misty Weeks: That’s crazy.


Chris Sulimay: Exactly.  Right. If you think about it. And-


John Palmieri: They’re going to get hate me a little.


Chris Sulimay: We might  but that’s okay. And so you know.  And it just, it goes to show that a lot of times sometimes we will gravitate[00:34:00] towards the thing we picked up first. But I met a lot of people that I mean you know, are certified  in SR hair cutting. You’ve worked on hair for a long time, right?


Misty Weeks:  Exactly.


Chris Sulimay: But you know, I imagine going through that experience as an experienced professional was different than the first time when you went through it in hair school.


Misty Weeks: Yes.  It was, definitely.


Chris Sulimay: And  so did you? I mean any?


Misty Weeks: It was just great  going through it with  Sally. She made it so easy and so. It was technical but it was very, “I got it. It clicked.” [00:34:30] I think I had more of an open  mind obviously. I’m older and wiser. I know how to cut some hair but not to the degree of Vidal Sassoon trained Sally Rogerson. So it was great. She made me feel relaxed enough to take it on. And you know what, I can do an L1, I can do an L2. I do it on my friends and family just not charging clients for it right now because my confidence level isn’t there yet.


Chris Sulimay: And you work with a partner.


Misty Weeks: Exactly.  And she does amazing cut, so.


John Palmieri: If you want to think about you know, [00:35:00] as we’re getting deeper into our podcast, if you could think about where you see hair color going. You know, open up your crystal ball you know, where do you see us going? Not only where do you see yours going, but what are you excited about that you can kind of see over the horizon for those who are?


Misty Weeks: Well I like the blending that we’re seeing. Like I said earlier, the marrying  of the Balayage and picking up the traditional foils. I’d love to see more melding of colors, but yet not [00:35:30] harsh colors. I like the pop colors don’t get me wrong, but I feel like we’re kind of fading out of that area.

If we’re going to have some pop, it’s  just going to be little accents it’s not going to be the global  silver hair, global purple hair. I’d love to see just like a tortoise shell color coming in. You know, with a lot more or prisms coming into the hair but a lot more blending. At the same time, lightness on the ends. I’m a real color, big colors when it comes to redheads. So I love doing [00:36:00] bright reds, fiery reds, flaming reds at the root and then filtering out to orange and yellow on the ends. So. I see a lot of melding of colors coming into play. It’s exciting.


Chris Sulimay: Yeah totally.  And that’s going to hang out for a while.


Misty Weeks: Yes.


Chris Sulimay: Right? I mean if  you’re wondering when that’s going to go away, it’s not tomorrow. And this reminds me of  years ago, I was in a meeting with a bunch of educators. This is literally 12 years ago.


John Palmieri: Before the war?


Chris Sulimay:  Before the war. And we’re like three months into the Ombre trend at that time.  And a person- maybe it’s maybe 10 years- in the room who was a respected colorist kind of stands up and says, “I’m so sick of Ombre, it’s already gone.” And somebody who was smarter than that person stood up and said, “Look, don’t kid yourself, it hasn’t, it’s it’s just beginning.”

And that’s ten years ago [00:37:00] now at least, and so you know, if you’re seeing foils come back into play they’re not going anywhere. They’re going to progress in this lived in layer on the ends. That’s not going anywhere.


Misty Weeks: Exactly.


Chris Sulimay: It’s going to progress. You know, these things take time and so you want to be patient with that, right?


Misty Weeks: Right, absolutely.


Chris Sulimay: And embrace it-


Misty Weeks: The Ombre, that harsh Ombre was there for a while and then it turned into a Sombre where it’s started to get soft and now we’re in the Balayage, now the foils are coming back in. It’s just that it’s  a circle. But you’re right. Those things are going to [00:37:30] stay. You’re going to have your core people that are going to believe that you know, that are not going to want to transition to other stuff. But that’s where you see it revolving. It’s the harsh line and then it starts getting softer and softer and then you’ll see the harsh again, yeah.


John Palmieri: Right. If you’re a  student going on a school maybe – below the five year time span of being a colorist, stylist. What words of advice or things do you think the new person joining our industry needs to be [00:38:00] aware of or should make an important part of their training in the next year or two?


Misty Weeks: Two things you need to know, the hair structure and the hair under line pigments, what you’re working on. Visually, you see it’s a light brown but go   deeper. You need to know what’s underneath that. I always say, think about putting a drop of bleach on someone’s hair. Within the first two seconds, you’re going to know what their under line pigment is.

As a colorist, you have to know how to formulate hair color. You can sit there and put bleach and tone on people all day long. But I recommend [00:38:30] study  the under line pigments and the hair color, the fiber you’re working on, and then the color line or manufacture line that you’re working on. Take as many education classes as you can from them and know their color. You know, know the tricks and the trades and try it on as many people as you can, on mannequins, friends family. If you know those two things, then you’re gonna be able to expect your end result every single time.


John Palmieri: Awesome.


Misty Weeks:  So yeah. I think those two things are what they need to focus on.


Chris Sulimay: Wow, that’s fantastic advice. I feel like we could have I mean we’re [00:39:00] close to 40 minutes in. So  I know we’re winding up, but I feel like we can talk all day about this. This has been a really great-


Misty Weeks: Yes.


John Palmieri; Yeah, thank you very much.


Misty Weeks:  Of course.


John Palmier: We appreciate it. For those who don’t know, we just walked across the hall and said, “Hey Misty, what are you doing?” And she says, “Why?” I said, “How about podcasting?” “Sure, when?” “Now.” [laughter]  Like right now.


Chris Sulimay: And you totally hit it  I mean, so just thank you so much.


Misty Weeks: No, thanks for having me. I love talking. I can talk color and hair color all day [laughter].


Chris Sulimay: It’s the truth. Any closing thoughts, John –


John Palmieri: Well we have… [00:39:30] You know, we got to stay with the thing here. So Misty, anything that we didn’t talk about or anything you felt we left on the table that you want to you know leave us with? Any parting gifts?


Misty Weeks: Come take some more classes.


John Palmieri:  All right. Yeah, yeah.


Chris Sulimay: Okay so-


Misty Weeks: I’ll be back here August 18th and 19th [crosstalk]. I’m going to be doing some-


Chris Sulimay:  Well, we’re in Seattle right now which the listeners won’t know because we’re from Atlanta.


Misty Weeks: Okay, sorry .I’m in Seattle right now.  So I’ll be back in Seattle August 18th and 19th to do a two-day foil technique class.


Chris Sulimay:  And how do we find that?


Misty Weeks: It would be on Sally Rogerson [00:40:00] website [crosstalk], SR Education. So you can go to instragram SR Academy also.


John Palmieri: Academy?


Chris Sulimay: So John any –


John Palmieri: Yes, this is my favorite part! You know what you need to do. I need you to go home. Not even  go home, do it right now. I need you to write us a wicked-


Chris Sulimay: Wicked!


John Palmieri:  Good five-star review. For those of you, you know who are  multilingual.


Chris Sulimay: Wickeed.


John Palmieri: Wickeed  is French for five, right? So I need you to write a wicked good five star review for this podcast.


Chris Sulimay: And if you [00:40:30 ] enjoyed what you heard today, please punch that subscribe button without hurting your knuckles of course.


John Palmieri: Or breaking the phone.


Chris Sulimay:  Yeah. [music]   And if you like to stay social please hook up with us on Instagram,   @124.go on instagram. And –


John Palmieri:  We got the webpage coming up.


Chris Sulimay:  In all honesty by the time this thing is up,you should be able to find our website at-


John Palmieri: www.124go.com


Chris Sulimay: And we’ll have all kinds of good shit on there for you.


John Palmieri: www.124go.com


Chris Sulimay: You got it. [00:41:00] And so again, just thank you all for listening and we hope you enjoyed this episode. And we’ll see you soon, bye [music].


Misty Weeks: Thank you guys, bye.