Preparation, Professionalism, and Hustle! A conversation with Missy Megginson, @soyoureahairstylist



John Palmieri: There’s the clap

Chris Sulimay: So I think that means we are about to start the podcast. Hey everybody, thanks for listening, my name is Chris Sulimay I’m the co-host of Shop Talk brought to you by 124go. I’m sitting here with my great friend.

John Palmieri: John Palmieri.

Chris Sulimay: Still the same name. [00:00:30] Still the same guy. Still the same loud gregarious voice [laughter].

John Palmieri: Yup. You know what, it took years to get this.

Chris Sulimay: I believe it did, I believe it did. At least 13, right? [laughter] We have a really special guest with us today and we’re super excited about this conversation. We’ve got Missy Megginson with us.

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Missy Megginson: Hello.

Chris Sulimay: Did I say your name right?

Missy Megginson: Yeah, it’s Megginson, I think you said it right.

Chris Sulimay: Megginson. Awesome, fantastic. I actually have never heard you say it out  [00:01:00] loud. So, I took a stab in the dark with Megginson.

Missy Megginson: I don’t even tell people what it is, when I’m on the phone, I just say, “Let me spell it for you.” [laughter] Because it’s not even worth going down that path.

Chris Sulimay: And missy is the owner of the page  @soyoureahairstylist. A great industry blog, lifestyle blog, encouragement blog, if you will. I’m using my own words now.

Missy Megginson: I like it. I’m here for it.

[00:01:30] Chris Sulimay: Fantastic. That we discovered not that long ago and we started to really interact on social media and found that we have a lot in common. And so, that prompted this conversation and we’re going to talk about a lot of various things, but most of all, you know, really the opportunities for hairstylists and whether you’re a newer hairstylist as well as maybe a hairstylist found herself in a rut or you’re looking to reinvent yourself. And so Missy, we’re just really happy to have you. So thanks for being here.

[00:02:00] Missy Megginson: I’m so excited. Thanks for having me

Chris Sulimay: Fantastic. Yeah, absolutely our pleasure. So, John.

John Palmieri: Before we pressed record, we were talking to see a little bit about how she came to create the blog and where she’s at in her career at the moment. And I thought it was a great story. So maybe we can revisit that, is that okay?

Missy Megginson: Yeah, I’d love that. Especially since I’ve already said it. [laughter]

Chris Sulimay: You’ve got some practice.

Missy Megginson: Some practice.

[00:02:30] John Palmieri: So, take two!

Missy Megginson: Okay, here we go. So I have been in the industry for about 15 years and I have I found myself in a place in this salon that I’m at where we were looking for an assistant and we just, it kind of put in front of me newer stylist, which I hadn’t been around in a while and in the state of Florida, you have to be licensed [00:03:00] to be able to shampoo out color. I don’t know, is that how it is in Georgia as well?

Chris Sulimay: I don’t think it is here.

John Palmieri: Nope.

Missy Megginson: Okay. So in Virginia it wasn’t, so a shampoo girl could be, it was my sister at one point, she was my assistant. I don’t recommend that. [laughter]

Chris Sulimay: I was my brother’s shampoo boy by the way.

Missy Megginson: I mean if she listens to this, I love you but it just, she knows why. So, this was new for me, that our assistants that we were bringing in were actually new licensed stylists, [00:03:30] right? They had to be in order to be coming in. So we were sort of bringing them in  like a trainee fashion. And we went through four in a year and it really opened my eyes that students are coming out of school and sort of just finding themselves stuck very quickly, either stuck because they’re overwhelmed cause they don’t know what to do or stuck because… [00:04:00] I feel like overwhelmed might be the best way to describe it because you either are, you don’t know how to get to the level you want to be at or you don’t even know where to start to start making money, right? And everybody comes out of school and wants to start making money stat. So I just sort of took up this cause if you will, and threw myself out there not knowing anything about anything tech related. My husband [00:04:30] thinks I am a crazy person when I’m sitting trying to build a website at like two o’clock in the morning. And I just really wanted to create a space where I could start taking the things that I’ve learned- I’ve built my business from the ground up twice -and really just be a source for actionable steps for new stylists.

And you guys are creating such an amazing culture where you’re at where I really feel like I want to come see the school [00:05:00] first of all, I’m inviting myself there. So that happened, on air. But you guys are creating this culture where I think stylists are going to come out really prepared. Everything I see you doing behind the scenes, I think you’re setting them up to maybe not have as much of the learning curve.

Chris Sulimay: And it’s interesting because a part of our off-camera conversation if you will, was about the similarities sometimes between a new stylist as well as a stylist that might find themselves stuck in a rut. And the feelings of overwhelm, hopelessness, frustration  “maybe I should get out of this career, maybe I’m not that good at this, maybe I have a different path, maybe I have a different calling,” these are two places that are very similar and what we liked right away about what you said was the action steps and like things that you can put your boots on the ground, you can do these really calculated steps, focus on these things and you’re going to be able to build your business stat if you will. And we kind of shared, one of the things that interests me about your journey [00:06:30] is the fact that you’ve moved twice and built your business from the ground up. I’m in the process of doing the same thing now and so let’s talk, why don’t we just jump into some steps. What do you think?

John Palmieri: Yeah, and the first step I want to get to is you said something previously as we were doing the warm up, you said that you decided to plant your flag, right?

Missy Megginson: I did.

John Palmieri: So here’s the first step-

Missy Megginson: Is that like, what is that? Is that like a Napoleon reference?

Chris Sulimay: You know what? I thought it was on the moon.

Missy Megginson: Is that what it is? Okay.

[00:07:00] Chris Sulimay: I don’t even know.

John Palmieri: It’s a lunar reference.

Missy Megginson:I like it.

John Palmieri: And I think that’s the first step is making a decision, right? And so, let’s talk about your decision first and let’s move from there. So in your words, you decided to plant your flag, why? I mean, you’ve told your backstory about how you’ve seen your company go through four assistants in a year, you looked at that and said, “Oh, those poor kids [Incomprehensible]” but you made a decision, you decided to take action. [00:07:30] What was the impetus for that? Why those people-

Chris Sulimay: Why you?

John Palmieri: Yeah, why you?

Missy Megginson: Why me? That’s such a good question, I honestly don’t know. My husband and I have been… I call him a serial entrepreneur. We’ve been entrepreneurs forever. And so I think my brain is conditioned to see a problem and come up with a solution, and I mean, I think as hairstylists we’re kind of conditioned to do that too: [00:08:00] “You have gray hair, let me figure out how to get rid of it. Your bangs are not working, we need to fix that.”

So, I was in my house and I was just going through, I was genuinely sad. Like, I love what I do so much and what the freedom that this career has given me to make an amazing living and be a mom is something that I have friends that have master’s degrees that are jealous of. [00:08:30] And so to see people that are going through the hours and hours that it takes to get licensed and then falling off because they didn’t feel like they could make it, I immediately had this, I couldn’t take it anymore and I just felt like I might not be the answer, but I can’t sit by and watch anymore. So if I can help one person [00:09:00] find an easier path to their career that keeps them from quitting, if they genuinely want to do this, then that’s my mission.

Chris Sulimay: Yeah, and we’ll add some statistics to that. Very commonly known, 80% of people that go to hair school aren’t in the business within five years. And so-

Missy Megginson: This is insane, that’s a lot of time to go to school.

Chris Sulimay: Yup. That’s a lot of time to go to school, it’s a lot of money. [00:09:30] And it’s… Now I’ll make up some statistics.

Missy Megginson: That’s how I work, That’s how I operate [laughter].

Chris Sulimay: I think probably 80% of them or at least 50% wouldn’t have jumped ship if they just would have had a few of the tools that you’re kind of talking about or that [Incomprehensible] pieces.

John Palmieri: Yeah, I think for too many, stylists it’s kind of like how your grandfather would have taught you to swim where he just threw you in the [00:10:00] pool and said, “swim!” And I think too many assistance, too many first time stylists that what it’s like and the unfortunate part is half of them drown.

Chris Sulimay: Yeah, yeah. So what were some of the first things that came to mind that you wanted to share about when you were planting the flag in the ground and some of the first things that you saw these new people coming out of school feeling that they’re ill equipped that you thought, “God, if you just knew this.”

[00:10:30] Missy Megginson: Yeah, I immediately saw and it was multiple different people, you know, multiple different interviews. So we only hired four people, but we went through a pretty big interview process and what I was so disappointed by was it really felt like nobody was properly prepared for how to present themselves for an interview. Like I’m talking, showing up on time for an [00:11:00] interview, on time is late. Like, and we’re talking people showing up 10, 15 minutes late texting that they didn’t know they needed to get gas and I’m not one that’s just going to say like, “Oh, this next generation of people”, I’m a grandma millennial by the way. So, I’m like, I’m on the cusp. So I like take up offense for millennials and I’m just like, okay, let’s not just label these people, were they not taught how to do [00:11:30] this. Like our kids have to be taught how to obey and how to do the right things. Where are we missing creating a system for these people to know that you need to be on time for your interview, and that you need to show up with your hair done. Because by the way, we’re in the beauty industry, so you’re makeup needs to be done, your hair needs to look good, it cannot be in a wet bun, and you might not need to be in a suit and [00:12:00] heels, but you need to be reflecting your personality and how you’re planning to show up to work as a stylist from the moment you step in to that interview.

John Palmieri: [Inaudible]

Missy Megginson: What?

John Palmieri: You mean sweatpants and a t-shirt doesn’t work?

Missy Megginson: No, no. Like athleisure even is like not okay. Even if it’s Lululemon, that’s a no go for me.

Chris Sulimay: That’s close though, Lululemon’s close, come on [laughter].

Missy Megginson: Listen, listen, I mean I might let it slide, but you better have on cute shoes.

[00:12:30] John Palmieri: At least they’re branded right?

Chris Sulimay: That’s right, that’s right.

Missy Megginson:Yeah, they’re branded. So that was like that first like the interview process and then  just so say you get hired- coming to work on time and coming to work and being on your phone or not on your phone. The things that you’re discussing on the floor of the salon, the things you’re talking with clients about in the shampoo bowl, very [00:13:00] simple things that can very quickly make or break your career.

John Palmieri: So, for those people out there who go to the job interview with the sweat pants and the t-shirt and their hair in a wet bun and come to the interview late and for some reason do get the job and they’re on their phone all the time and they’re talking about inappropriate conversation in the shampoo bowl in their first week they’re there, I hear you. [00:13:30] Why is that important? Because if I knew it was important, I wouldn’t be doing it. Tell me why this is so… As that new person “All right, I see. That’s great. But why?”

Missy Megginson: Okay, so I think it’s important because I think that you have to set herself up for the job you want, not the job you have. So if you want to be a stylist that’s commanding high prices, if you want to be a stylist [00:14:00] who is respected by your clients and not getting the run around by them. If you want to be a stylist that’s respected by your coworkers or your boss, then you have to command respect yourself. And to me, that boils down into showing up on time, taking pride in how you show up to work. It’s going to prove, it’s going to take you down the trajectory of your job. Just those few action steps of dressing like, if you want to be a high end stylists [00:14:30] that commands those prices, you have to show up looking like one. That Doesn’t that mean you need to be in designer clothes -I shop at target- but that means that I’m going to show up looking prepared for my clients when they come in. If I have a nine o’clock client, I’m getting there at 08:30.

Chris Sulimay: You know, I love this discussion so much for multiple reasons, I think it should be, we say it all the time but John and I are millennials who just aren’t young. [00:15:00] We-

Missy Megginson:You want to be part of the club?

Chris Sulimay: And when I say that, I mean, we’re a big part I see you’re wanting to jump in and cut me off.

John Palmieri: No, I’ll wait for your to breath [laughter].

Chris Sulimay: We’re big Fans of millennials and cheerleaders of, and I think the reason, and when I say that, I mean, you know, look, you don’t get to choose when you’re born, you’re born when you’re born. And I hate to [00:15:30] say it to a millennial or any millennials, one day you’ll be the old folks and that just is and it’s real close around the corner. You know, these tech natives, like people that really, you know, will have never even had the discussion about, “Man, my phone used to be a…” It’s like, that’s not even a thing, that’s right in the corner and we’ll be having new discussions around it. But where I was able [00:16:00] to get some clarity around the potential of the millennial group is two things: One is my nephew is one, he graduated in college, he’s in his twenties, and he literally is selling robotics for a pharmaceutical company. And he is in the operating room with doctors, helping them to put in new limbs, new robotic limbs into [00:16:30] people. He’s a 28-

Missy Megginson:That’s incredible.

Chris Sulimay: So that’s one and he’s just my nephew. I mean, we don’t need to talk about robotics, but you know, he’s that, that’s his potential and now he’s been elevated out of that position. But the other place that was really interesting was Living Proof. When I was working at Living Proof,  many of the scientists in the labs developing those products and I really, you know, [00:17:00] the technology behind that brand, I have to say Bravo to. Most of the people in that lab are 20, 21 years old, 18 years old, 19 years old going to Harvard, going to MIT, doing, thinking way, way, way above my level. And so, if an above average thinker, millennial intellect can do that, [00:17:30] then an average person in that age bracket can show up to work on time. The minute extra because what I want to say to you is if you’re listening and you’re in that bracket, we’ll talk about that turns here soon, but is you are capable. And that’s why I get frustrated every now and again. I never have anger or whatever, but sometimes I go, “Don’t you see? You’re a lot bigger than you think.” [00:18:00] There’s a lot more that you could and I say have, but I really don’t mean have like a new car, like that sort of thing. There’s a lot more that you could credit towards yourself if you did- now we’re on camera, so I’m showing like an inch- this much more, if you took these couple of extra steps, you have no idea the gems that life will give you back. And you talked about making a decision, John, [00:18:30] with Missy kind of  planting her flag in the ground. It’s the people that just plant their flag in the ground and just start doing something a little bit different a day at a time over time that really end up making impacts. Now, Missy, I saw that you just got back from a kind of a larger or a smaller, maybe social media retreat with some really youngish people [00:19:00] that have done some astounding stuff. John and I were just out at Modern Salon digital summit and saw the same thing. Now these are people that fit the bill of what we’re talking about that have decided to be more extraordinary like yourself in our opinion.

Missy Megginson: Thank you.

Chris Sulimay: What are some of the things that you took away from that experience that we could relate it around this conversation?

Missy Megginson:Yeah, so that was the Hair Love Club and [00:19:30] I was in LA, that was one of the coolest things I’ve ever gotten to do. Just being in a room with people all different ages. People that are defined as major industry influencers, Like, totally trying not to fangirl and keep my cool as I’m totally fangirling and not keeping my cool and all of their stories if you listen to it, there is a consistent message [00:20:00] was just that they we’re willing to hustle and like not hustle in like you have to get to this point of burnout and you have to like make it past the next person and climb on top of people to get there, but just hustle and that they were all willing to see a goal that they wanted to be met and do this little steps along the way to get there. [00:20:30] All of them, they all had to start small. That was their biggest thing. They were like none of us…. This did not happen for us overnight. I was reading a book called the Overnight Success and in the like preface to the book, she’s like, “My overnight success for 20 years.”

John Palmieri: Missy, following up on that, Chris and I are big fans of the Gary Vee podcast and he talks about hustle all the time. He talks about, don’t worry about it, that’s perfect, just do it. [Incomprehensible] [00:21:00] You just talked about that as well, that hustle. What is it do you think it keeps people from starting or even, because here’s the thing, this isn’t something that we’ve haven’t heard before. From watching people and watching the new hires come in and watching the people fresh out of school with their diplomas from hair cosmetology school, what keeps them from getting started? What is it that’s holding them back do you think?

Missy Megginson: Well, I do think [00:21:30] that not knowing where to start can definitely be a roadblock for people. You know, some people, I’ve done a lot of study about personality types. I’m like, I totally nerd out on that. And some people are just naturally go getters and some people aren’t and that’s okay. So if you’re naturally not someone that’s going to come up with that go get great hustle attitude, then you need to be aligning yourself with the steps, small steps along the way that are going to get you there. And what [00:22:00] I think when we were hitting on the kind of millennial topic, I think, you know, for instance, I love TV. That is how I totally recharge myself. I don’t really watch cable anymore because I want to be able to binge watch it [luaghter], I want to be able to know that I’m going to start, I want to know that I’m going to be able to start something.

Chris Sulimay: You want to take a day with Netflix, cozy, shut the door and get through 13 episodes.

Missy Megginson: Absofreakinglutely.[00:22:30]So here’s where I’m taking this, I’m telling you, I’m doing a Netflix analogy here, it’s going to get real deep, you know, stay with me here [laughter]. Not at all, it’s not getting that  deep but I do have a point. So when you start a show on Netflix, you know that you’re going to be able to watch each of those shows and it’s going to get you to what? The end, small steps along the way. So as I think this new generation they are constantly [00:23:00] put with how to get from point A to point B very quickly. If you want to finish this show-

Chris Sulimay: By the way, we all fall into that academy.

Missy Megginson: 100%

Chris Sulimay: “Here’s the five steps to get to anywhere.”

Missy Megginson: Right! And so I think that it’s just that reminder that there is an end game involved and yes, it might take longer than being able to set up shop and watch your Netflix show over the weekend. [00:23:30] But if you can show up to work on time, look professional, do these steps, follow formulas to get clients in your chair, you are going to see an end result. You just have to be told that that’s what’s going to get you there. They need to be able to see. And we all do, we all need to be able to know that what we’re waking up and doing every day is going to have an end result or else why are we doing it?

John Palmieri: Right. And I think that’s the power that your blog has, [00:24:00] hopefully the influence our podcast has, but there’s lots of different places now because of social media, because of other blogs, because of what you can find on YouTube, What you can find in Instagram stories where there’s a lot of people now putting those steps out for people. I hate to be mean, but it’s almost like you don’t even have an excuse anymore because there’s so many places, so many different avenues that you can find those steps. All you’ve got to to do is Google “steps to success” you’re going to find 20,000 different varieties.

Chris Sulimay: Yeah, so give us yours. So now that we’re at that point, I got to have some steps. I got to have some steps. So, what are those things? We’ve talked a lot about philosophy, talked a lot about the mindset, the willingness, as well as recognizing that the apple is there  it’s a low hanging fruit, all of us can grab it. So what are those [00:25:00] top three to five things that, you know that people could do if they’re in the salon, maybe trying to pull themselves out of a rut or wanting to amplify their clientele or just made a move.

Missy Megginson: Okay. Well, I do have three steps and I will let you in on a little secret: I am creating curriculum.

Chris Sulimay: Not surprised.

[00:25:30] Missy Megginson: [laughter] I can say it right now because this first batch of curriculum is something that I’m just going to put out there because it’s just something I’m going to put out there. It’s something I’m working on more to follow on when it’s launching, but it’s going to be free to start. Just because like I said, I started it as a passion project and these steps can get so much bigger [00:26:00] that it’s just the vague, but I like you’re talking about Gary Vee, I am a podcast inspirational entrepreneurial book, podcast book, all of it, I read them all and words that come up a lot in all of them are “value”,  you have to be constantly offering value in everything that you do. And so, I think that to succeed in our industry, that’s what you have to do. [00:26:30] You have to be offering value and that is a really simple word, but you can really break it down. So I broken it down into, you’re offering value with the end result of your service and that’s your service that you’re delivering, the education that you’re pursuing and the quality of the products that you’re using in the salon. The experience during the service. And then, you know, kind of diving into how [00:27:00] you can make that experience the most exceptional possible and then the follow through on that service. And that’s what product are you selling? How are you following up with your clients? What are you doing on social media? And I think that a combination of one and two, the end result and the experience can create a happy customer, they create a satisfied client but a combination of all three is what [00:27:30] creates client sustainability and what does client sustainability create?

John Palmieri: Revenue.

Missy Megginson: Exactly!  It creates a viable career. One that you can stay in for the long haul. So you are literally the first people to hear my systematic breakdown.

Chris Sulimay: Okay. So now let’s dig a little bit deeper into that. So, I’m brand newish, right? How do I get to my [00:28:00] end result and experience faster. So, give me three tips on creating a great client experience., if I’m new and I do happen to be shampooing. And in Florida, I know they’re called assistants, in some states they’re called associates, here they’re called supports. We have all these kinds of names so I don’t want anybody who’s listening to get hung up on the name. I’m new, I’m at the very start of [00:28:30] my career. How do I make that experience, a standout experience compared to the person down the street who shampooing and getting started?

Missy Megginson: Yeah, the end result. Well first of all, I think it does start with showing up to work on time, being prepared and looking the part but I also feel really strongly that you have to align yourself. Your end [00:29:00] result is also dependent on the environment that you’re working in. I really strongly feel like we talk a lot about what you need to be doing as a stylist, what you can do, how you can show up to work on time, what you’re wearing, aligning yourself with good education which like you said, is available for free. A lot of it, a lot of it, I mean you can pursue free education [Incomprehensible] free hair school practically, you know, on YouTube [00:29:30] now. But if you have not aligned yourself with a space that is consistent with your end goal, that’s not going to allow you to offer the best end result possible, because unless you work for yourself, you’re not controlling what product line you’re using. So, if you get hired by a salon that uses what you presume to be an inferior product [00:30:00] line, you can’t blame that on the owner. Nobody made you work there. I mean I feel really strongly about your environment that you put yourself in is part of that end result of the service. And I think where you put yourself straight out of hair school and every step along the way, needs to have a purpose and not just be a good for right now.

John Palmieri: You know what, I think it turns to a branding exercise, [00:30:30] where we have this end in mind as you previously said. What brands that are carried in the environment that I work for speak about me as a person. For instance, an easy one is Aveda. If  I’m in an Aveda salon, there’s a perception that comes with that. I’m looking for sustainable products, I’m looking for a company that’s green, I’m looking for organic, I’m looking for all those things. But if I’m not that person, [00:31:00] if I’m not the organic crunchy granola type, then I look at this product and go, “it smells funny” it doesn’t fit my branding. If I’m working in a city environment, but I’m a more of a laid back kind of person, that’s not going to work for me. We talked a lot about such a branding exercise, you know, working in an environment that you can connect your personal brands with that salon brand.

Missy Megginson:Exactly, I could not agree [00:31:30] more.

John Palmieri: What I’d like to break it down even more is we like to call it Culture.

Chris Sulimay: I was wondering  [Incomprehensible]

John Palmieri: Because most people, [Incomprehensible][laughter]

Missy Megginson: Excuse me, stop the podcast: When are you going to use the word “culture”, sir? [laughter]

Chris Sulimay: It took so long for him to get that word out of his mouth, that’s all.

John Palmieri: The reason it took me longer is because I think that that’s the part of culture that people don’t understand. [00:32:00] We talk about Culture all day long.” Oh, the culture of this place is it’s laid back, oh, the culture of this place is a city place, the culture of this place is that.” What we’re really talking about when you’re talking about culture- and of course it’s much deeper than that, but- it’s about the branding and do I fit in this environment? Is this what I’m trying to be? If those things don’t align with who you are at, who you are and what you’re trying to create, then five years down the road you still haven’t gotten there, you’re [00:32:30] frustrated, maybe you’re stuck- it’s  one of the words Chris likes to use- you’re 5, 10 years into the career, “I’m stuck.” My career’s gone nowhere and I don’t know how to get unstuck. And for many people, I think the change has to come with either A, finally decide you’re aligning with this culture of this company, or B, unfortunately, go find one where you fit [Incomprehensible].

Chris Sulimay: It’s true, it’s true. And another thing that you’re kind of [00:33:00] bringing up in all of this conversation, when I think of experience and what happens in the salon, I also know that when I was young I didn’t know how to communicate with people older than me. I felt super comfortable being in the backroom- I’m using that, it’s a terrible analogy, but- talking to my friends, I felt comfortable talking to my friends that consisted of people [00:33:30] around my age bracket or people that were interested. I had thought in the same things I was interested in, I could communicate with them. A client might not be that person. So my suggestion for the experience for every young generation and every generation who’s stuck, is learning to communicate on a level that’s a little bit more elevated and sophisticated than the one that you naturally [00:34:00] live inside. Because I talk all the time about how much I hated working at Living Proof. I only say that openly because what I hated about being there was they, I knew I was in a room where I was by far the least smart person in the room.

Missy Megginson: See, I would love that.

Chris Sulimay: They outclassed me a 100%, and I would, I remember myself editing my words every second when I [00:34:30] was there- that falls on me by the way, this is me saying how good they are. That said, sitting inside of that bed of [incomprehensible], if you will, and being compressed it elevated me as a person. That experience I’m eternally grateful for because I saw, “Wow, if I want to have that type of clientele when I come back out and [00:35:00] that I’m going for right now, I’m shooting for right now, I need to take a page out of this book” and it’s helped me to edit not becoming a different, not be different than who I am as a person, but edit my language when I’m sitting with a client at the salon. If you and I are walking down the street or John and I are walking out of the pizza place, I might drop an F bomb at any moment. You never know when that’s going to happen with me and I’ll tell you where [00:35:30] it won’t happen. It won’t happen in the salon when [Incomprehensible]. Right?

Missy Megginson: Absolutely. I am-

John Palmieri: Missy, I want to ask you a question.

Missy Megginson: Yeah.

Missy Megginson: What [Incomprehensible] Chris have said. So, you’re working with these newbies, -we’ll call them Newbies for the moment- and one of the points that Chris just made was really important. Being able to elevate yourself so that people see value in you following up on your premise. How do you show people that? You know, cause here’s the  [00:36:00] pushback right? The pushback with a Newbie is “Well, that’s not me. I don’t talk that way. If they don’t like me, then the heck with them, they can go someplace else.” We get defensive by saying comments like that. I’m sure that’s coming up right with the people you work with. “I don’t want to be fake.” How do you talk to folks about that?

Missy Megginson: I think it’s a really simple answer that nobody can argue. So, [00:36:30] there’s a lot less opportunity for you to slip up and use foul language if you are making sure that the client’s experience is all about them. So my rule of thumb is my clients unless…  I mean I really, I’ll even flip the script on them if they try to go the other direction, my rule of thumb is always, is my client leaving my chair knowing more about me or am I leaving knowing more about them?  [00:37:00] It better be that they’re leaving and you know more about them, because that is not our therapy space. That is our space, As much as we want to make it feel effortless, right? We’re almost like athletes where it looks easy, but we’re octopus and we’re holding 500 things in one time and cutting straight lines and we’re talking at the same time and running on time and hoping we’re not burning their scalp. We’re doing lots of things at the same time [00:37:30] and we need to make that conversation flow effortlessly to be about them and the more you’re focusing on them, the less opportunity you have to be inappropriate.

John Palmieri: Right. Just so you know I still can’t cut hair and talk at the same time [laughter].I’ve got to stop [Crosstalk]

Chris Sulimay: Why do I not believe that?

John Palmieri: I just can’t.

Missy Megginson: There are some sort of female chromosome that makes us, I think very like conditioned to do that effortlessly

John Palmieri: [Crosstalk] cutting your hair.

Chris Sulimay: It’s very unpolitically correct.

[00:38:00] Missy Megginson:What’s unpolitically correct?

John Palmieri: I don’t know but whatever it was I like it so,

Missy Meganson: Sorry, don’t, I don’t want any nasty DMs about saying the girls can talk and do more things at the same time.

John Palmieri: Listen, I’m just calling myself out, I’m not saying names, I’m saying me I personally can’t do both. The haircut will take an hour and a half [Incomprehensible]

Missy Megginson:My actions are really funny.

John Palmieri: Well, it’s funny for me [Crosstalk]. [00:38:30] Are you done? Any ways, we digress. Social media, so on one hand we’re talking about making that presentation of who you are in the chair, with that client in front of you. But then we’re trying to attract customers to us and a lot of that now is a social media aspect. Talk a little bit about the behavior in the salon  [00:39:00] and how that connects with my behavior or how I took myself out into the world with social media?

Missy Megginson: Oh my gosh. Did you checked out my blog and see what i written cause I-

Chris Sulimay: We did read some of your blog.

Missy Megginson: Okay, cause I’m like, wait it’s like you know me! [laughter]

John Palmieri: Okay.

Missy Meganson: I mean did put it out there on the world wide web. I guess if you read it, that’s okay. Yeah I know. Here’s the thing.  [00:39:30] If you, well first of all, you need to have a hair page. That period like I strongly believe that you need to have a hair page. If you want to have a personal page, I highly recommend that you make that private, that only people that you allow to see it can see it. Because here’s the thing, you as much as you want to be you, right? Like you want people to be coming and sitting in your chair that align with you and maybe that is that they go out and party on a Saturday night,  [00:40:00] whatever. When you are starting out, you cannot afford to be limiting your clientele like that. You cannot, until you can tell me that you are booked months out and you are ready to start raising your prices in niching down what you’re doing, you don’t get to start alienating clientele that might sit in your chair because what they see you’re doing on a weekend night. That’s my opinion,  I feel pretty strongly about it because you’re turning away potential people by things that

[00:40:30] you’re posting about your personal life if what you’re putting on there might make them feel uncomfortable.

Chris Sulimay: Have you noticed that getting better or worse in your opinion?

Missy Megginson: I actually have to say there was a period of time where it was really bad and I think we all just were kind of trying to find our way. Like, okay, what is this page? What is this hair page unicorn That’s like a little bit of us so that people know who we are. But not all  [00:41:00] of us in an edited, curated version of us. I think it’s getting better, I really do. I really don’t see a lot- at least of what I see out there- people posting inappropriate things on their hair pages. And if you are, I think it’s because people are smart enough to know what I just said that you don’t want to turn off a client. It’s like the, honestly I think it’s the first page in the Milady cosmetology book talks  [00:41:30] about not talking about politics and religion behind the chair, because it’s sort of that big covering of… What’s our first job? Our first job is to make sure that our clients are happy and feel comfortable with us and we never want to be putting ourselves in a position where we’re making them feel uncomfortable. If they feel uncomfortable because we like to drink coffee, okay. I don’t know about that. But there  [00:42:00] are things that we know we can edit that we put out there that can make our clients feel more comfortable.

John Palmieri: Do you see, because I’m very a little bit of this and just a little bit. I see some of our newer, newer staff, the ones that are 18 maybe 19 years old just coming out the hairdressing school they’re not on any social media, they just don’t like it. Which I find interesting. And again, it’s a small group but I’m wondering if that’s going to grow or not. Thoughts?

[00:42:30] Missy Megginson: Well definitely the younger kids are not on Facebook at all. That’s Facebook is, I actually have mixed feelings, I’m not on Facebook personally and I really don’t keep up with my blog page very much on there, which is like a whole other thing that I’ve been trying to figure out. Cause the people that I’m most talking to aren’t really on it. I will say that our newest assistant who is amazing is not super [00:43:00] young, but he doesn’t really keep up with his Instagram. And so that was something I was like, “You’re going to have to get on this social media thing.” And I’m like, wow, those are words I never thought I will have to be saying to someone younger than me. There’s some social burnout.

John Palmieri: You have [Incomprehensible] get on social medias like your grandfather [Inaudible]

Chris Sulimay: That’s hilarious. I feel like this has been a great  [00:43:30] conversation. I feel like we hit on a lot of very important topics. Missy. I guess a couple of last questions: Number one, in closing, do you have any final thoughts or anything you want to say that you feel like we’re leaving on the table?

Missy Megginson: No. That was awesome. I’m so excited that I got to talk with you guys and  I said more than I thought I was going to.

Chris Sulimay: Yeah, this is really good.

John Palmieri: Tell us about the curriculum that’s coming out, [00:44:00] where can we find it, where can we see it?

Missy Megginson:I don’t have a total release date yet. It’s coming soon. I’m working on it.

Chris Sulimay: How do we interact with you?

Missy Megginson: Yeah, interact with me, I am on Instagram, I’m @Soyoureahairstylist and I have a website: and that’s where I upload all of my blogs and I’ve got a
[00:44:30] pretty awesome email list that’s gotten started just because we can’t control the Instagram algorithm, but you can get an email in your inbox if I send it to you. So I’m really starting to hone in on my email skills.

Chris Sulimay: Yeah. That’s fantastic. We are as well, John?

John Palmieri: I was really happy that you took the time to have this conversation with us. I’m looking forward to your curriculum piece and that’s going to be fun. And I know you mentioned that earlier. Come on up, get in your car  [00:45:00] [Crosstalk] [Incomprehensible] you’re more than welcome to visit anytime.

Chris Sulimay: Yeah, absolutely.

John Palmieri: We’d love to have you, come see our school, come see our salons.

Missy Megginson: Yes. Oh, thank you. I’m going to take you up on that. I want to see what’s going on. I love it.

Chris Sulimay: So, yeah, absolutely fantastic conversation, I love everything we covered. So if you’re listening and you liked what you heard today, please hit that subscribe button and share our, take a snapshot [00:45:30] of- if you are listening- this and share it in your Instagram and tag us and we will do the same. So you can find us on Instagram @124.Go as well as on YouTube @124go, where  this conversation we’llalso post. With that said, John, what else do we need?

John Palmieri: We need you to go to the apple iPod, what is that thing called? iTunes.

Chris Sulimay: iTunes.

John Palmieri: I thought [Crosstalk]

Chris Sulimay: Wherever you listen to this podcast.

John Palmieri: Wherever you listen to this podcast.

Missy Megginson: Not on an iPod.

[00:46:00] John Palmieri: [laughter] They don’t listen to those anymore.

Missy Meganson: [Incomprehensible] They’re kind of antiquated. It’s like the kids like starter phones now so the kids that have iPods are like eight.

John Palmieri: You’ll have to learn how to swim. Write us a wicked great review!

Chris Sulimay: Write us the wicked great review.

John Palmieri: Five stars is our preference.

Chris Sulimay: Five stars is the only thing we’ll accept.

John Palmieri: Yeah, it’s 124. Just, you know what, [Incomprehensible]

Missy Megginson:[Incomprehensible] a four might do well.

[00:46:30] John Palmieri: A four is like you are almost great [Incomprehensible]