Shop Talk- A Podcast for Salon Professionals



Chris: I’ll go ahead and start our podcast here. And so, I think Andy’s… Boom that’s the sign, we are now recording.

John: [Laughter] Just like that.

Chris: So, hey everybody, welcome to shop talk. Brought to you by “124 go”. I’m Chris Sulimay and this is…

John: John Palmieri.

Chris: And we’re here with-

Brian: Brian Perdue.

Chris: And we are the co-founders of [0:30:00.0] “124 go”. And we wanted to kind of come to you this morning and bring to you since, we actually have Brian captured in the room, who’s the founder of a salon group called Salon 124 here in Georgia outside of Atlanta. And it’s a salon group that’s done some really extraordinary things and our mission is to help share what you know has Brian’s been able to build along with the team over the past 27 years. And we wanted to take this time, since we have Brian [0:01:00.0] captured today, to share a little bit about the background of the company, some of the successes and how we as a company kind of have ended up where you brought us let us through vision. And so, John and I are going to be interviewing Brian and pitching in a little bit. And so, Brian why don’t you just maybe we start with a couple of questions John, what do you say?

John: Love it.

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Chris: Fantastic.

John: My first question is I’d want to know, is how you got here? Why [00:01:30.0] hairdressing?

Brian: Yes, a great question. Sometimes I still ask myself that [chuckle]. It’s been a great career. But you know, if you have to go a long way back in the 1980’s I was in college. I had a small school Georgia Southwestern in South Georgia and I had moved into the small town to go to school and one of the first things I had to do was to find a place to get my hair cut. And my friend told me about a little four chair Salon in this old hotel, and I went there and [0:02:00.0] long story short, I ended up seeing this cute hair stylist working there wondering who that was. And fast forward, ended up going on a date with her and ended up going on a lot of dates with her. And through that experience, she introduced me to the salon industry. In fact, we were both let’s just say, I don’t know if ‘poor’ is the word, but let just say we didn’t have any money. And one of the things that we actually did together on the weekends on Saturday night [0:02:30.0] was to clean her salon. I remember that we got paid $25 and we did that together and that was sort of our date money you know, to go out with. And so, I got a chance to listen to Karen talk about the industry and her dreams and aspirations and being a small-town girl, she showed me pictures in magazines like modern Salon and things like that of these gorgeous hair salons. She said, ‘One day, I want to be like that.’ And so, she sort of brought me I guess into her vision of what she saw and so, I helped her I guess [0:03:00.0] grow her business. I working on a business degree in modern marketing. And so, I sort of helped her to grow her business through doing things literally like going to the sororities at college and offering free haircuts, free hair services and watching her while other people thought she was crazy of what she was doing but very quickly, she built a very successful business there as a new hairstylist in South Georgia.
And so, going in through that I saw but that I didn’t think much about it. Fast forward again, I graduated from college we got married in 1986 [0:03:30.0] and ended up moving into the Atlanta market. I worked for a lot of different corporations doing different things but somehow, I landed in the restaurant business which actually transferred me into the northeast Atlanta market back in 1987. And sometimes you just get sort of lucky with things. I did from the standpoint of location, because at that time and still to this day it’s been a booming economy and so, we landed here and I ended up again with several different careers [0:04:00.0] as I helped Karen to restart her business in Gwinnett County. And it was really fun because we found… She went from doing at that time in South Georgia $10 haircuts, in the Atlanta market haircuts and styles at that time around 25. I remember that was her starting point and it amazed me the money that you could make. And so, we did the same concept. We went out and at night every night we would put up to 100 flyers on people’s mailboxes with Karen’s picture and some of her credentials. She’d [0:04:30.0] done a lot of training and so forth and we just said, “Hey we’d love for you to come in and like Karen cut your hair. Hopefully you find you two stylists.

Chris: That’s a super cool point and I kind of want to stop you because, the audience that we know that we want to kind of share with and help in a large part as hairdressers and a large part as salon owners and we know that most salons are born of a hairdresser that has some aspiration, some ambition grows has skilled talent grows a clientele and then [0:05:00.0] eventually finds themselves opening a salon. And you know, I can really easily look at the salon 124 groups, so you know, currently we’re sitting in the corporate office upstairs from your flagship location in the Grayson location. And you know there’s 25 or so hairdressers working downstairs in a highly productive environment. But you said something that really grabbed me just a minute ago, is like she started out with 10-dollar haircuts. And you guys started out [0:05:30.0] foot knit. You know walking around the neighborhoods and at the time flyering was the… right [crosstalk] that was social media.

Brian: Sure. Yeah, it was the social media. You’re right.

Chris: And so, do you know, I think a lot of owners get into Salon ownership and I could easily look at you and go, well how do I get there? And it’s like wait a minute we’re talking about $10 haircuts, 27 years ago.

Brian: Yeah. Well like I said, in 1988 I guess is when she started her business here in Gwinnett County. And we started with nothing. [0:06:00.0] I mean there was not a client. We were new to the market and it was to that. And you know, what was funny is I did an analysis when she was down in South Georgia and I realized that she needed somewhere between 150 and 200 regular clients for her book to be full. And that was very difficult. They were the number of stylists and the lack of population, but we were able to do. But when I came to Atlanta as I was driving to work every day in rush hour, I was thinking, “All we need is 200 people and I would start looking [0:06:30.0] in cars. And there’s one, there’s one, there’s one and before I even got him out on the road her clientele was full in my mind. I’m like, “This is like taking candy from a baby.” As we’ve said and sure enough through that marketing very quickly, she grew her clientele to a full book, because we work in other systems that are common in our industry. We talked about how to do a consultation, how to add on chemical services, how to sell retail or through recommendations and education [0:07:00.0] and then ultimately leading to the biggest combination to get them to rebook and to send referrals. It’s just a service cycle that if you master and it’s just doing it over and over repetitively and it’s going to be successful.

John: I like something that you were brought up and we’ve talked about this in the past was you decided that you needed between 150 and 200 customers, right?

Brian: Yeah.

John: And what’s nice about that is, I think you would also, we had talked in the past, I think at the time near 300,000 people in Gwinnett County is that the number you chose?

Brian: That’s correct. Yeah. And then today we’re up to a million. [0:07:30.0] So I just wanted to say we call it, but yeah, at that time maybe 300,000 people sure.

John: But I think that’s a nice way to look at it is, I need 150 to 200 customers and there’s 300,000…

Brian: Thousand to choose from. Sure.

John: Can I do that?

Unidentified male [0:07:42.4]: Sure, you can.

Brian: Absolutely.


John: And why I think we put it in that perspective, it doesn’t become so overwhelming anymore.

Brian: No, it’s not. It’s just you know. But again, the focus is, one at a time. Focus on what you have, knowing where you’re trying to get and then you set goals which we were always great at doing. [0:08:00.0]

Chris: It’s fine that you say, because lately I’ve been hammering on this idea of there’s really only two things we do. We do people and we do performance, right? Like if I can master the people game and to have a nice quantifiable number. If I’m a new hairdresser and I’m growing a clientele, it’s like what looks like infinity is really just 150 or 200 if I get it right.

Brian: And really, I even look at it different [incomprehensible] because again, one key thing that I talked about was that referral thing. And so, the way that I looked at it is each client to me [0:08:30.0] represented the potential for up to maybe, let’s just say 10 other clients. That’s just the way I looked at it because they play tennis in groups, so they go to church in groups or they live. So, really if you want to boil it down from there, I needed 20 good people to see me 10 people.

Chris: That’s awesome,

John: Right.

Chris: So, recently in a conversation we were talking and you kind of shared and I love, by the way, thank you for sharing the piece that you just shared at the way you did because that brings some perspective on Karen enrolling you and you really like starting [0:09:00.0] in the grassroots piece. Recently, you were kind of sharing about the way you looked at hair when you decided you know, at some point, “Hey, I’m going to leave the job and career I’m in right and I’m going to go into this hairdressing thing with Karen and we’re going to go full bore. But you didn’t come at it from the hairdresser approach. You talk a lot about strategy and kind of how your brain worked in entering that.

Brian: I’d give you a bit of insight into my mindset at that time and again after college, I worked in the corporate world, not just in the restaurant business [0:09:30.0] that talked about, but I did financial planning for a while and even got into the automotive industry, thinking I want to own car dealership one day. But I was always working with other companies, but I had a sincere entrepreneurial drive. And so, I got to the point, I was 26, almost 27 and we’d been married about four years and I finally got to a point that I knew I wanted to start my own business. And so, the first thing that I did as a business person I learned in business schools that frankly 80 to 90 percent of small businesses [0:10:00.0] typically fail within their first five years, because they don’t understand the proper business systems or structure things that are needed. But 90 plus percent of franchise organizations succeeded, because that’s what they had. They were able to buy into a system that had operations and so forth that they could then manage it. And so, I started looking at different franchise companies in different industries, but as I was doing it I looked at the hair salon industries because of my wife’s success, because of Karen’s success. Frankly [0:10:30.0] she was making more money than I was. And so, as I looked all that I saw was really franchises targeting the budget, men’s or children’s market. And nothing wrong with that, but that’s not where Karen was. We were more interested in the upscale, the high-end market. And I could not find a franchise model and it was that curiosity. I said, “You realize this is a multi-billion-dollar industry with a B,” billions. A multibillion-dollar industry. And I found it very easy [0:11:00.0] for Karen to be able to build her business. But what I saw was just a drastic level of inconsistency throughout the industry of the way that the salons were being run. And in fact, we had a very difficult time finding an organization at that time for her to work in that met the standards that we were looking for. And so, the curiosity just struck me, why is this such a large industry that nobody has franchised? I understand and we could talk about that later, but that was the curiosity that led me. [0:11:30.0] Something just clicked and said, “go figure it out.” And I literally followed that calling much to the amazement of my parents, friends and sometimes even myself. Because my wife and I laughed when I went home when I said, “I think I’m going to get in your industry and try to figure it out.” And that was the beginning of it. With that thought process back in around 1989.

Chris: What did your parents say, your friends say like you know what were some of the comment?

Brian: I can honestly [0:12:00.0] say, I told no one for six months because I said, if there’s not a franchise model I’ve got to learn it from the ground up. So, guess what I’ve got to do. I’ve got to enroll in cosmetology school. And so, I said, “All right where’s the best one around? And there was one at that time called Cappelli and the Buckhead market and I enrolled, and I went clandestine undercover. [Laughter] and I did not tell anybody for quite a while because frankly, I went to school with the belief that hair stylists were just born, and they knew how to do it [0:12:30.0]. And I was so not that, I’m not a creative person with my hands. But I went to school and I realized that it’s just a system of learning. Just like an art form and their basic foundational elements that I had the capabilities of learning. And actually, became quite good at it although, I can truly say, I wasn’t passionate about doing the hair. But I was very passionate about understanding the mindset of a hairstylist. And so that’s what that time [0:13:00.0] their school gave me the [incomprehensible]. But I finally told my friends and they are like, “What are you doing?” And I said, “Guys it’s a calling and I’m going to go figure this industry out.” And I did, I’ll say this and this is sort of my belief in life, is I burnt all paths of retreat at that time. I literally [crosstalk] It literally was, we’re going to be as successful as we can be or an absolute failure. I’ll take either one, but I’m not going to compromise in the middle because I’ve [0:13:30.0] found myself in life, when the going got tough, I would always retreat and go to the next thing if I didn’t like it. This was the one time I sold out for the top or the bottom give me one or the other just don’t give me the middle.

John: Right.

Brian: And so, it was armed with that, that I embarked, went to school, got my license and graduated and then moved on to the next step.

Chris: That’s awesome. And so, I want to fast forward a little bit, but I know some things happened in between. So, what were some… Let’s say [0:14:00.0] pinnacle things from you getting through cosmetology school and then actually becoming a hairdresser. I know you assisted at somewhere you know that’s really famous. Maybe talk a little bit about that?

Brian: Sure.

Chris: And you know, how the journey got from now on enrolled in cosmetology school. Holy crap Mike. And now all my friends know, my family knows this is you know this is what I’m doing, I’m all in. And what’s the journey look like from hair school to getting to the point where you open your first salon 124.

Brian: Absolutely. Well [0:14:30.0] the first thing is, that I’m a very systematic guy. I think step by step. And so, I went to school, I got my license and I said okay, if I can do this, anybody can do it. I was the least case scenario and I was able to do it. While I was at school, I talked to a lot of small salon owners. And the thing that I asked them is what is your biggest problem? And 99% of the time, they would say we can’t find any good hairstylist. [0:15:00.0] And I found that amazing, that was actually a big concern. I was in the restaurant business, I had a hard time finding cooks and dishwashers and I didn’t want it. I was held hostage, having to do a lot of that work. I don’t want to be held hostage anymore. And so, I said okay this is the problem I’ve got to figure out. How to find a stylist and so, since there wasn’t a franchise system I just simply said, “Who’s the biggest hair salon around?” And that salon in Atlanta was Van Michael salon. And so, I literally put an application in and begged [0:15:30.0] for a job and I told him, that I would work for free if I had to. And I was able to get on board there as an assistant and frankly start shampooing hair. And I eventually, after six months became Van’s personal assistant and it was a great time with me spending with him, learning his mindset, traveling with him and at the same time, Karen and I were traveling to hair schools like Vidal Sassoon at the time in London in Santa Monica and Toni and Guy in London and Dallas Texas and so forth. Really getting into that [0:16:00.0]. But what I was doing as I was studying the industry itself and I was really looking at the largest case scenarios and what I saw is I saw Mario Jakosky, organization in Chicago, Jean Juarez in Seattle, John and Mary McCormack had started visible changes down in Houston Texas market and he had written a book self-made in America that I read which was very insightful to their mindset and how they grew their organization and what I learned through that [0:16:30.0] is again, I knew that getting stylist was the biggest challenge. And I remember coming out of school many salon owners were offering me bonuses like, you’ll come to work with us and stay six months, we’ll give you a thousand dollars. And I learned he was begging for a job at Van Michaels. And so, as I looked at these large organizations, they had just stylist, applying left and right. And I said, “What is the difference?” And at first, I thought, well it’s just that they’re big beautiful salons. But they all started small [0:17:00.0] so they had to do something to move from small to large, what was that.? And as I peel the layers away, it became self-evident that there’s one core foundational element that was the most important and that was, those companies were bought into education. Because the stylist is coming out of cosmetology school. They got their license, but they still knew they needed a lot more. And so, the best the, stylist they wanted to be the best. [0:17:30.0] Search out the organizations that provided the technical training they needed. And so, that was the great ‘aha’ is okay. If I start my own salon, we have to be seen as one of the best technical, educational salons that we can be. And so, I ended up after about a year and a half with Van, having the opportunity to buy the little salon in Gwinnett County and my wife was working at and again at that point I was able to convince three stylist and one assistant to stay with us as I bought it. And I just went ahead and started building the salon at that point. That would have been 1991 [0:18:00.0]. So, it was my wife, three stylist, one assistant, by the way two of the originals are still within our company working very part time, just to stay connected to the vision. One has retired and another one works within our inventory company. So anyway, they’re still with us today. But it all started… This was the thing, I knew in the beginning that I didn’t have much for people to see as far as a location. And so, I had to become a master and sharing the vision, knowing the vision and being able to [0:18:30.0] share that with others. And so, that’s what I did as I interviewed people, I looked for people that were bought into our culture. The culture that we were trying to establish and people that shared in that vision and where to grow to be a part of our vision. So, it’s really from that point on been a day by day, getting up, sharing the vision and helping to develop people. That’s the key is, loving your people, developing your people and helping them to grow. And if you do that, your company will grow. [0:19:00.0].

Chris: So, my question is, you know not every salon grows and there’s plenty people that have passion and vision and they think they love their people and they open salons, Right? And yet not all of them grow and so now knowing that salon owners, hairdressers are going to be listening to this. Let’s start from the hairdresser for a minute and just like, how do I find a culture like this? Like if I’m a hair school student, coming out of hair school, you know because what we’re talking about here has now been developed [0:19:30.0] and you know, is interesting because you shared a statistic like that 90% of businesses are going to close. When they open you know, and in a couple years. Interestingly enough the same exact thing is true for hairdressers. About 80% of people that go to cosmetology school and graduate with a license, end up either doing hair in the kitchen or not being able to make money in the first year and a lot of this my belief is, they sometimes think it’s going to be easy. That one [0:20:00.0] thing, but another thing is, they get into an environment that’s not a growth culture, that’s not supportive of my first few years and say you’re doing something very differently. You know, you are creating an environment where other people could grow, and you didn’t have to be the superstar.

Brian: Right.

Chris: Even though you were there, in it and Karen, I’m sure was exploding with her clientele at the time. But like it was about like turning grown towards people. So, [0:20:30.0] I’m a new hairdresser and I’m looking for a place to work. I know nowadays, there’s a lot of different options that maybe didn’t exist before as far as renting a suite or doing this and that, which I don’t think we endorse or oppose. But, if I’m new and I want to find a place and I want to continue learning, how do I know?

John: You know what? and I want to build on that question. If I could, I want to know how you knew, me. Because I think we can all sit here because of our experience, right? And we’ve learned that culture [0:21:00.1] is important, right? And we’ve learned that vision is important. And we’ve learned that over 20, 30 years of experience.

Brian: Sure.

John: But maybe take us back to where you were at that time. Where did that come from? You know, how did you discover that you know what? Vision’s important. How did you discover that building a company that had to defined or shared culture was important? Because, I think that for many of us, we want we know how we get there [0:21:30.0] now, because we have the benefit of experience. But take me back to somebody who didn’t have the experience. And how did you realize, “hey these things were important.”

Brian: Well that’s a great question. I’ll tell you that. I had a very transformative period in my life doing this timeframe. And that’s really what started it off is that. And again, this is just, “Boy you’re going to really uncover me here in front of everybody today.” [Laughter] But you know, prior to me going to cosmetology school and making the decision that I was finally going to pursue what I was passionate about, that was owning my own business. Life up until that point, I had one big priority and that was to make money.

Chris: I think a lot of people go into this like that.


Brian: And you know what it was is that, there was pain growing up because we didn’t have a lot of money and there were very hard times. And I and I understand now as an older man looking back and reflecting back that as a child that lack of having [0:22:30.0] money created a lot of fear and concern in my life and what I wanted to do is, I wanted to eliminate that pain or that fear. And so, that was just something that was inside of me I didn’t even know it was there, it was just there. And so, everything that I was doing was trying to figure out how to make the most money because, I wanted, I thought that money was going to give me something that I was missing. And so, the reality was, with that focus like a laser beam, I was tenacious about it. And my wife was bought into helping me [0:23:00.0] with that. Boy, I’ve told people if I could be as diligent at working out as I was at making and saving money. I would be Mr. Alice [laughter]. But the fact is, is that we, through the first four years of marriage, had been able to accumulate for us at that time a substantial amount of money. And frankly, I was flat and empty on the inside. And so, that’s what made me stop work and evaluate life. What is this about? [0:23:30.0] And it was during that time frame that I had, the transformation where I came to realize now, from my testimony, it came from a Biblical perspective. But I came to realize that it’s not what’s in it for me. It’s how do I take my life and how do I use any attributes that I’ve been given as an individual to make a difference in other people’s life? That was the key and so, when I got that, I realized, okay, I’m going to pursue what I’m passionate about [0:24:00.0], that entrepreneurial side. And I’m going to be done with the fear. You see the fear in the past, the reason I’d never done it, was I was fearful of losing money if you open a business, Business School tells you have a 90% chance of failure.

John: And you know, you talk about when you decided to take this path, you set yourself up so that there was no going backwards.

Brian: There was no, because what I realized…

John: Because it sounds like in the past, you did that because of the fear of losing that money [crosstalk]

Brian: Yeah, you may lose, no words that I guess [0:24:30.0] in my mind and in my being, losing money would be like getting killed. It would be the equivalency that I run from getting killed. But when I got to the point that I realized that I’m not going to die if I lose money because that’s not what’s important. Don’t get me wrong. It’s nice to have it. So, don’t anybody hear that. But I wasn’t fearful of losing it because I realized that I could get it again.

Chris: This is really funny that this went there because, [0:25:00.0] there’s a lot of… This is out there now and obviously with the Internet and like podcasts and YouTube and you know, whenever you talk to the most successful people in whatever it is and most successful could mean, if I’m a new stylist the most successful person could just be the busiest person behind the chair in that salon, right? So, it doesn’t have to even be Warren Buffett, or you know or you know Mark Zuckerberg. At some point in your life, there’s a transition from I used to do [0:25:30.0] this for this reason. And it gets exceedingly better when I realize that my first reasons were just phase one. The real true goods come and that’s kind of why we formed One to Forego right? We’ve been talking about this for a couple of years. And you know we all, for those of you who are listening to us and this is your first time listening to us, so Brian’s the leader, the flagship of grown the six salons through the years. [0:26:00.0] John’s been consulting with salons, a salon owner, a successful salon owner, sold that salon for money. Imagine that. Right? And is now director of business development for its Salon 124 group. Myself, I’m a lifetime hairdresser and all of us I believe you know, through the conversations of knowing each other had a point where we kind of realized, it ain’t about me like, it ain’t about us. And even if you’re at the chair, the realization that like [0:26:30.0] Okay I now am stable. I’ve grown a little bit of a clientele, but my clienteles seem to get bigger and better when I focus all my attention and make the experience about the client.

Brian: Well you know, and one of the things that one class that I teach at my school is about that business development side. And one of the key points that I make is how do you view your client? And so, if the old Brian would have viewed the client as an avenue [0:27:00.0] to extract money or to get money and so, I would have talked to them from the standpoint of you know, how am I going to get you to do this and this and this and this so that I can get money from you. But to me there’s not going to be a connection that’s made. And the new Brian, would look at you and say, “How am I going to help you to feel better about you?” And so, I’m going to talk to you from that perspective. And now, through that I’m going to talk about all of the various things that we can do. But I’m not doing it any longer for the money so what happened is when I chase the money, I got money [0:27:30.0]. But there wasn’t fulfillment at the end of the rainbow. When I stop doing that, then I started building relationships and focusing on others. Money became the byproduct. And it didn’t matter. But what I found and I’m not here to preach what I call the prosperity gospel but, what I found as money came easier when it didn’t have as much importance. And I wasn’t the focus anymore and it made for so much more of a fulfilling life. And so that. And so, John, I know you’re going to ask. Well let me [0:28:00.0] [incomprehensible] back into what you said in this way.

John: That’s where I wanted to go. So, you have this transformative moment of time. Translate that to not just, I understand how you how that found the personal relationships more important, but I think something just as crucial as you were able to share that and get other people to buy into it as well.

Brian: Well first of all let me say, because it’s real. You don’t have to try to get people to buy into it. It’s just, it’s attraction. If you have this as attractive [0:28:30.0]. Because it’s truth. And when people see it, they want to know, just like you’re asking me today. You’re asking because it has led to what the world would say as ‘success’. And I’m able to share it and there’ll be somebody out here today that will say, “well, that’s a different way to view things.” Because this is what it did, is that you were asking me about how did I guess tie in to the importance of that. Well the reality is, is with an owner’s hat, I didn’t approach it from the standpoint of how I am going to make money. Now [0:29:00.0] don’t get me wrong again, from a business perspective it has to make money [crosstalk]

Chris: As a measuring stick.

Brian: Absolutely. But again, that can come as the byproduct as long as you learn the systems. It’s important to learn. But I didn’t do it just for that measure. You see what happened then is it, the business became a two. To impact other people’s lives. And so, the way I approach thing is with each individual because along with that transformation I read a book called pushing up people by Art Williams who was founder of [0:29:30.0] AO Williams now Primerica. Great leadership book and the essence of it is, as a leader if you can understand what are your people trying to achieve with their life. If you’re helping to push them up, then your company is going up. And that was such a radical transformational thing for me. That became exciting because what it did is I want to know about you. And if somebody spends time with me and watches me and sees new people come in the first thing I’m going to do is, Tell me about you, tell me your story, [0:30:00.0] who are you? Where did you come from, give me your background and the last question is always, what do you want out of your life?

Chris: Which is so different than, find me people with a book to work in this salon. And I don’t care. I just want. I want to come in and do my job and go home. And it’s such a different mindset that the only, and that maybe there’s somebody out there that had that [0:30:30.0]mindset that grew exponentially. I’m sure there’s some that have had success

Brian: That is what I call Chris, and this happens all the time as you will see, potentially a salon that will have boom and bust cycles.

Chris: That’s right.

Brian: Because what you’ve got is, you may, you’ll have a salon where maybe it’s exciting and this is an exciting culture. But again, it doesn’t have a foundation of truth. So, people might grow and grow but then, all of a sudden, these people leave. [0:31:00.0] Because most of the people within [incomprehensible] are all about themselves. And so, that’s what I look for and I attract as I care about you so much. Then the thing frankly, that I know for it, if I feel like you’re an individual is all about yourself that’s not what I want in my company. Even though you may be the best stylist, you may be the biggest star and the brightest star. It’s totally not what I want. I want people that you can tell they have a heart and passion for being of service to others because to me, that is what it’s now. We are [0:31:30.0] here to serve, not just a stylist. Stylist, we’re not here to serve our owners. The owner, stylist and also, Assistants are not there to serve you. Okay, I’m sorry. Let me say that back. But I just say it. All right. Assistants are there. But my point being but you should also serve them, show them appreciation and teach them the next step. And know we’re just a reciprocal relationship all the way around. And when you get that, then that’s where team and unity. Now the thing that ties all that together [ 0:32:00.0] again that vision part, John that you talked about is, people want to know where we are going. That’s the vision, where are we going? And then the strategies. How are we going to get there? It’s one thing to tell a story. But if you don’t have a strategy, that gets crazy right. And you’re not going to get there. It takes both, vision where we go in, strategy, how are we going to get there?

John: And the thing about vision. One of the things that always sticks in my head that I’ve learned a while back was as an owner as [0:32:30.0] a leader, as anybody who’s helping other people you know, pulling them up. If you’re not supplying that vision and being real clear about it, other people are supplying a vision for you.

Chris: Well this is a super great discussion you [crosstalk] and so, for your listeners, we’re going to wrap this up, but just to give you some context what you just listened to is a conversation with Brian Perdue founder of Salon 124 group. That’s six salons co-founder of a digital solutions [0:33:00.0] based performance software called zis org as well as the CUNY Academy by 1 to 4. John, Paul, Mary. Again, business development director for Salon 124 group co-founder of one to forego and myself Chris Suliman. Thanks for listening and we can’t wait to see on the next episode.

[0:33:30.0] Song playing

[0:34:00.0] Intro Song playing

Chris: So, hey everybody welcomes to Shop Talk brought to you by one to forego. You’re back with the co-founders of one to forego. Brian Perdue, John Pelmieri.

John: Chris Sulimay. [Laughter] I thought to introduce you.

Chris: Or maybe say hello.


Chris: I hope between the three of us we all love to talk, so you know we’re on a roll with these this morning and [0:34:30.0] we just really ended a podcast where we were sharing you know, with salon owners a little bit about the vision of how companies start, really. And you know building it from the ground up and then we started to get into a conversation about vision, which I think we want to focus a little bit on for this podcast and it felt like maybe we’re in moving towards strategy. So, just to set you up for, if you haven’t listened to that first podcast and you’re an owner and you’re kind of wondering what’s a journey look like to go from a single salon to maybe one day your vision is multiple [0:35:00.0] Salon and maybe one day your vision is growing a big team or if you’re a hairdresser and you’re starting out and your vision is like, I just want to grow old clientele, go back and listen to that podcast. But for this one, we’re going to continue that conversation and I know we’re just having a discussion about vision and kind of how that plays a role in a company. And John, you were just sort of sharing a little bit of your thoughts on that.

John: Well, I think you know from what we got from the first podcast, one of the things that I thought was really special about that first conversation was [0:35:30.0] Brian talked about how he had a transformation in purpose. So, I think that comes first, right? You know what is the purpose of doing this? You talked about it first time was all about making money. When you decided that have a purpose changed, things started to explode for you. Then that led to well vision because, now you have to share that. And I think one of the things we touched base on before we closed out the last podcast was, if I’m not sharing a vision, there are other people doing it for me and it may not necessarily align with the one that I [0:36:00.0] have. So, I think that’s where we ended and I know I’m excited to see you know, where we take this next step. So let’s get into it. Tell us about that vision, how you were able to share it and where that thought in your mind came from that this was what I want developed.

Chris: And I’m going to cut you off even before you answer. [Crosstalk] [laughter]. And the reason why is, because you know, the more I spend time with successful salon owners and successful hairdressers, a [0:36:30.0] successful bankers, lawyers, doctors, whatever. It’s so interesting because, this feels like a soft conversation. This feels, when you start to talk to me about vision. If I’m a busy owner, who’s maybe you know experiencing hostage syndrome to my business, my business is holding me hostage. Or I’m struggling to grow. It feels so silly for you to bring up vision. Yet, I think we know that without that piece [0:37:00.0] you know, you talked a little bit about the ups and downs of an accidental success, or an overnight success or a salon just is cool in the moment. You know, it’s kind of like that new bar that opens up that has a successful happy hour and three months later a new bar opens up and takes that happy hour. But it’s the really, it’s that long term understanding of like what is this business about? Where are we heading?

Brian: Well, I love that because you said what is that about? And I think that is such a key component, and again in sharing [0:37:30.0] my story earlier. To me, the business was just an avenue. It was a platform to impact other people’s lives as a business man, what was the vehicle that I was going to use to impact people’s lives and it is really, sometimes I find a lot of humor that I ended up in this industry because, I certainly did not grow up as this creative person. But just was, I landed here, and this was the vehicle that I get to use in order to impact people’s lives [0:38:00.0]. Which is by the way insulting to a lot of salon owners who say to themselves, how does somebody you know, passion is our passion, is the name of our game?

John: And this guy never even wanted to be a hairdresser.

Chris: Yeah and this guy never even wanted to be a hairdresser. And so, if you’re that person like listen up because, you missed the boat. Passion is definitely cool to have and it’s a mate. It feels really good but unless I understand where I’m heading and have like some structure, some strategies, some systems to get me [0:38:30.0] there. Then passion is just, it’s a it’s only right thing to talk about.

Brian: Let me say this. And I appreciate you saying that Chris. I can honestly say that many times I stand silently in all of the great artist and stylist that I see. And so, first of all, I hope everybody out there hears that, because that’s the truth. I go wow! Because again, with my view of lie [0:39:00.0] God gives each person different sets of talent. And you know, a lot of times in this industry, people that go out and open their location I’m going to go to a business book to bring this home. If people haven’t read this and it doesn’t matter whether you’re a current owner or a stylist, one day you think you want to do your own thing or even if you’re a stylist within an organization wanting to grow your own business. There’s a great book that I read that was called the E Myth [0:39:30.0] theory by Michael Gerber. Great book. And what this book talked about was as a business owner, there were three distinct types of personalities. Set about 10% of individuals that have a business are entrepreneurial. Those are people that really sort of have a vision, what is the customer looking for and they work towards creating that vision or that business in the way that it’s going to operate to meet that need. About 30% of business owners are management minded. These are people that are good operationally at running a [0:40:00.0] business. A lot of times, a management minded business owner may be a person for instance that would buy a franchise. And the entrepreneurial person creates the franchise. A major minor runs it. But about 60% a majority of businesses that exist out there in the U.S. are technician owned businesses. And the definition of a technician is a person that likes to do the work of the business. And so. [0:40:30.0] The key component that they said is that here’s the big deal, when a technician opens up a business, they typically always open up a place to go to work in their business. That’s the key word. They’re opening up a place to go to work in their business while an entrepreneurial person opens up a business to go to work on their business. And so, that’s why you’ll see so many times that owners, they’re the most excited when they’re creating their environment. What kind of walls [0:41:00.0] you’re going to have? What’s the color going to be? What’s the music that I’m going to play? And it’s always the wine and the wine glasses and the chairs. We spent so much time choosing our chairs in our [incomprehensible] because we’re creating this environment in our heads. That is like, this is the place I want to be and everybody that comes to work here is going to want to be with me in this environment that I’m creating for us to go to work in.

John: And the strange part is, is that when we’re there we don’t understand why people haven’t fallen in love with that [0:41:30.0] as well. I built this wonderful thing, I got great chairs, I got great music, I got wine glasses, heck looks at the mirrors, they got lights around them. What do you mean you don’t love it here? [Laughter] Take it personally.


Brian: What they don’t love typically is the lack of organization within that business. Because they have been many great looking salons, frankly that the door shuttered and closed. Because the belief was, that in the look of this salon is going to attract people. But no, it’s the systems that go to work [incomprehensible]. How am I [0:42:00.0] going to work on our business and frankly, that’s one of the key components for one to forego. It’s how do we help provide that structure? How do we teach you as a technician, how to work, own your business versus working in your business? But again, I believe that’s though, how we all work together and again that’s their passion. I go back to what I initially said. What was it about that change a purpose in life? And that purpose is how do we take the talents that we have? How do we help other people succeed? And so, through this is [0:42:30.0] sharing some of those operational systems, some of that working own the business that we’ve done for years to help other people have those systems to work on their business with.

Chris: Okay. So, stop teasing us. I’m a salon owner, I’m listening. I’m bored in. I get it. Brian, vision, right? Helping others, working others, but there’s some day to day. So, if I’m an owner and I’m listening and I know that I need to do some transformation to my business and to my mindset you know, and to where we’re headed. [0:43:00.0] What are some of those things you had to start to focus on that you realized that other salons weren’t focusing on or that technician mindset isn’t focused on?

Brian: Well, again I’m going to go back and I hate to say, Because I would reiterate because this is the foundation. First of all, as the leader. Where is your heart? You see, I can give you all of these other tools and there are companies out there that will give you all the systems in the world. Systems are systems and systems work [0:43:30.0]. But the thing is, is who’s driving the system? What’s the heart of that person driving the system? Okay? Because if I give you a big truck, but you intent on running over people. With that truck, you’re not going to use it for the purpose. [Laughter]

Chris: What a great analogy for some salon owners. [Laughter] I say blowtorch [laughter]. If I’m going to blow torch everybody I hire, what’s the difference? Why should I hire people?

Brian: And so that’s the first [0:44:00.0] key component is one on one I love to engage every person that I did come accounted. What is life about for you? Let’s talk about what is your purpose? what is your personal mission statement? Why are you here? And let’s talk about that. Because if we can get that part in the right place now, then we can talk about Okay. All right. Now, what’s next? What do I do with this? And so, boy if you want to spend some time on that, you tell me Chris, we can unpack some of that [0:44:30.0] but that’s the first thing is, the foundation is who is the leader? what are you about? how do you view this thing as the leader?

Chris: Well let’s stay there for a second because, for a lot of owners and you talked about this in our last podcast about you know, growing up not having much and thinking money is the goal for a lot of owners and I had the same experience. I mean, I was successful in my 20s and I showed you that. In looking back [0:45:00.0] I now would have a new strategy, if you put me back in that same spot and it would be to humbly grow that business reinvest. And so you know what? In coming along with that change of I’m no longer doing it for the money, even though profit is a measurable byproduct. What now am I doing it for?

Brian: Chris let me say something because this just came to me, but I think, this important topic is [0:45:30.0] so many times if we are focused on that thing about the money or our business you know what that really is? Is that becoming whatever that is, it becomes our identity. And that is not our identity. Okay? If our identity is placed on our bank account or the what we drive or the outlook of our business or whatever the case may be. Again, you might reach what the world would say is success. But there is going to be nothing there, will never be enough. [0:46:00.0] But usually that will lead the high and lows because, that’s what you’re going to lead because other people are buying to that. This is what it’s about, it’s about how much we make or the way we look and it’s going to create an environment of everybody for themselves.

John: You know, I just came across something. From what you just said and tell me if this doesn’t ring true. You mentioned how in the beginning, it was about making money. We talked about how for many salon owners, it’s about creating an environment that I want to work in, right? The chairs, the mirrors, the music, [0:46:30.0] the wine glasses. I wonder if the challenge we have is, those things are selfish, right? I’m not saying you have to be mean. What I’m saying is the money is about me, right? The environment I built is about me. And then, do we not attract the same type of person. It’s all about themselves. All right. And so now we’ve created a selfish environment. All right. And how can that succeed? What if it’s all about Brian making money. Long term, for it’s all about Brian making money or it’s all about how Brian built this place that makes him happy because he likes leather chairs and he likes wine glasses that look like this that I wonder if that creates that up and down success because we retracted selfishness to our company and selfishness.

Brian: Well you know John, I would really say though that people are emulating what they see in their leader. There’s nothing inherently wrong. They fight having great looking chairs is a great thing. Having great looking space is a great thing if you serve wine. That’s a great thing. [0:47:30.0] All of those by themselves are wonderful things. But it’s the purpose and the intent behind the person leading the organization and the people they attract. And again, something we said in an earlier podcast or maybe we even said it in this one was, organizations can get hijacked if that person isn’t, if the leader is not providing the vision. There will be somebody stronger that comes about. Typically, that’s going to provide their vision.

John: That’s way nicer than yours

Brian: [Incomprehensible] try to the people cause now they’re saying like oh, this is what we’re doing [0:48:00.0]. And it may become something you didn’t even intend because you didn’t realize you’re supposed to do it.

Chris: I always say there’s a lot of times, once the owner is a business card leader, until they prove to me that they’re the leader, right? And they may very well be the leader, they might have a vision, they might be a leader. But if you spend a time in any salon or organization or whatever, it won’t take long for you to figure out who’s a real leader is. You know you’re right. And if that vision, not only if I’m not supplying the vision [0:48:30.0] but if my vision is you said selfish vision, it like if my vision isn’t the vision that makes sense, meaning and you use the word ‘truth’ like if my vision is just, “look at me that’s my name on the door, my way or the…” I mean you’re like rules and regulations and things like that. But the point being somebody else is going to have a sweeter vision.

Brian: Yeah. And I’m going to go to a deeper topic, and I don’t [incomprehensible] I’ll excuse we’ve never talked about this. But you can maybe disagree with me but, my observation is years ago, before the invention of Salon suites and things or that nature that have really risen. And again, it is what it is, it obviously is beating a name. But I think there were owners that were more and what I would call they, they saw it as being in the driver’s seat where they could dictate dictators because what are the people going to do? Why we have the [0:49:30.0] best salon in town? But you see, no longer does anybody have to put up with that. Now, there are options where they can go create their own nice environment. And so again, that is part of this huge transformation in the industry which I believe, it was just somebody capitalizing on the lack of leadership. [Crosstalk] in the industry and somebody finally figured out how they could make it a real estate play to go out and charge large amounts of rent as these big box stores were closing in the downturn [0:50:00.0] in the economy back in ’08 ’09.

John: I think that to your point, they say about half of our industry now are independents. Half of our industry is self-employed and half of our industry work in traditional salon. If I was to take that 50% that are now independents. I would say 20% of them are just entrepreneurial by nature.


John: [Incomprehensible] [0:50:30.0] And anybody could do that, you know what? And…

Brian: And anybody that’s willing to do that is willing to take that risk [incomprehensible] forth because it’s extra effort. It is not like, I’m going to go here and it’s going to be easier, no. If you’re going to be a business owner and you truly run your business, you’re going to put forth more effort or you’re not going to be successful.

John: And so, I think we congratulate that 20%. You know, our entrepreneurial is the American dream. You go out there and work hard. You’re going to create your own thing and all the power to you. I would [0:51:00.0] say the other 30% though are people that are dissatisfied with the environment they came from before and it wasn’t because the chairs weren’t nice, and it wasn’t because you have the right wine glasses. It was because I couldn’t buy into your vision.

Chris: Yeah, the owner was an asshole.

John: [Laughter] Exactly. Yeah, the owner was a jerk. You know, the vision was maybe selfish or maybe it wasn’t one I couldn’t buy into. And I left dissatisfied because how am I supposed to grow with this environment? and we leave not so much because we’re entrepreneurial [0:51:30.0] although obviously, that’s part of it. But because this suck.


Brian: Part of it Chris is what you just said, is that attitude of the owner but,

Chris: I know [laughter] there’s no better way to say it.

[Laughter] [Crosstalk]

Brian: But I would say you know, the thing that I found this industry or there’s, there’s absolutely some incredible people. This can be the most loving, caring industry that exists. [0:52:00.0] And so the other part of it is, those types of leaders that are that way, but they don’t understand the systems that they need to have and how to properly lead that. Yeah. And to me that’s probably the biggest part. Again, this is the frustration of so many times people say, I may say I love the person I’m working with, but I’m frustrated because I feel like I’m treading water and now I’m not going nowhere, I don’t know where we’re going.

John: I think sometimes it becomes an endless cycle because as an owner or a manager and you’re struggling and you’re finding your people maybe haven’t bought into your [0:52:30.0] vision or better yet, you haven’t really clearly communicated it. And what that looks like we become even more demanding. We become even more rule. You know, I’m just going to make tougher rules. I just need to be harder on. And we make the situation worse but, in the end, communicate a little bit more.

Brian: Well, here’s the deal. Everybody out there everybody right now that’s listening in on this. On the inside, including all of us were saying, only aside [0:53:00.0] what’s in it for me? Where we all I said, what’s in it for me? And that’s not a bad thing. But, again as the leader, you’ve got to be able to know what they want and how are you going to help them to get there. That goes back to that book pushing your people and or podcast that I talked about. And if you don’t know where to go that’s challenging as a start-up but listen, it’s just as challenging to me today with over 130 hairstylist in a school and a what do you think that is? Because the bigger it is, the more [0:53:30.0] difficult it becomes to know truly what everybody wants and to be able to create an environment and systems to help them to achieve that. So, it’s challenging whether you’re small and don’t know to do or you’re big. Trying to figure out how to make it bigger for everybody to reach their objectives.

Chris: I love it.

John: So, we started off this conversation with vision. You know what? Let’s talk about that a little bit if we could. Brian what’s your vision? What do you see?

Brian: Well, if I go back to the very beginning what I saw was here in the Atlanta market is, [0:54:00.0] in the what’s called a Buckhead area more downtown in Atlanta. That was where the salons that were seen as very creative artistic salons existed. That’s why, I ended up going to cosmetology school and working with Van at Van Michael salon back in 1990. But, as I was there I was talking to lots of clients, where do you live? And I saw that a large majority of the class were driving in from the suburban market to get their hair done because there were not quality salons in their area. [0:54:30.0] And so again, just as a business man I said, here’s an opportunity. Because you look for what are people looking for. Were the markets that it’s not served. And so, the initial is I bought the salon my wife was in is, I wanted to create an upscale Salon that gave great service from great technical people in the suburban market and in all candidness I thought, maybe one day there’s enough people that live in the county that I’m in that I can have maybe 10 or so stylists and I can keep them all busy [0:55:00.0]. 27 years later we’re at 130 and we’re still going within the same county. And so, that was really that and also a big thought. Even we were brand new. You know one of the statements we said is we want to be one day the undisputed leader within the industry. Now what does that mean? Who knows and that’s a really bold step but when you have nothing? But what that does is it gives you something that keeps pushing you because that is something, you’ll never know whether you’re ever there but it’s something that outlives even me. So, [0:55:30.0] I want to create a vision that is bigger than just me. Because again so many times I see companies especially this industry that it is all about an individual. And I wanted something to be bigger, that’s a reason I didn’t name it after my name or anything else. I wanted something bigger than me.

Chris: It’s cool that you say that. And you know, to take that full circle I know that you know, John your story is a lot of like of how you ended up here you know in just kind of seeing like okay, this is [0:56:00.0] somebody that I want to work with. This is a vision that I want to work with. And you had left a consulting company and you know relocated to Georgia. And I think, we’re really you know this is one of those industries where there’s an opportunity for me to plop somewhere and grow clientele anywhere from a hairdresser. If I’m a salon owner, I can open a salon anywhere. You chose to take a different route and to go from being a consultant flying all over the country consulting salons [0:56:30.0] selling your salon to work inside of an organization. I took the same route, to work with Brian and I’d argue that vision was probably the biggest part of it.

John: I mean it was, you know, I go back to my interview with Brian who at the time you know, I had gotten married and my wife was from Georgia. I met her when I was working for the consulting company and it came of choice in our life. We had decided.

Chris: A little mixing business with pleasure but we can talk about that later. [Laughter]

John: Maybe we shouldn’t talk about it, though.

[Laughter] [0:57:00.0]

John: But they came a choice in our lives. We decided that it was important to move to my wife’s home, which is how I got here. But it took you know, almost a year and a half. My wife had moved here for a year and a half before I moved here. Because I had to sell the salon. I was a partner in a bar, I had to sell that or my interest in that. And you know I had a consulting business I was working for at the time. And I’m traveling back and forth on an airplane every other [0:57:30.0] week you know, visiting my wife and looking for a job. And the thing was is, I could cut hair again. But I’ve done that. I’ve been there for 25 years, I loved every minute of it. But if I’m going to make this kind of a change. Let’s do something crazy. You know and being entrepreneurial by nature. The decision to work for somebody else didn’t come easy. Because I’ve got my own vision in my head. I have my own beliefs in my heart. I’ve got my vision of [0:58:00.0] what a salon looks like, the wine glasses, the chair, the whole [incomprehensible]. And when I met Brian who came from a recommendation from [incomprehensible] salon owner that I had met and worked with. I sat down with Brian and the first 25 minutes of our conversation was his life journey which is the most interesting interview I’ve ever had. Let me tell you how I got here. You know I got in a selfish way but let me show and tell you how I got here, because it’s the foundation of our company. And that he asked me [0:58:30.0] you know what do you want to know? So, I said I want to know what your company culture and one of the things that Brian said was, that he wanted to elevate the hairdresser in the hair industry. That was what he wanted to do. Well, guess what? That’s what I want to do. So, here’s a man who has both a great company. Here’s a man who has the same vision, I have. And we toward the different salons, we toward the corporate office. I came down for three different interviews. [0:59:00.0] There’s a majority of the locations and every place I went, the culture was upheld each of those locations. What Brian’s vision was. Elevate the hairdresser in beauty industry. I want to be part of.

Chris: It’s really important actually that you repeat, you just said that so fast. But if you know if you don’t know like that’s the that’s the vision of the Year of the salon group to elevate the hairdressing industry and the communities that we serve.

John: And that’s the purpose of one to forego too. [Crosstalk] [0:59:30.0] it all for me fits. We’ve got a company. I heard industry that does that you know, I know that’s where your heart is. So, that alignment makes life easy.

Chris: I point that out because that’s much different. Then I want to open a salon. Yeah right. That’s that elevating the hair industry, is a much heavier load to carry with a lot more responsibility and it gives me something to get up and go to work for if I’m an owner.

Brian: And again that, that’s the part that I know [1:00:00.0] and speaking to the interview and I appreciate you saying, John how I shared my background and not from a I guess a selfish nature. But, a lot of it is I’m so intent on sharing the vision and the underlying values that I want to lead the company that I believe it or not it’s more of an intention to see, if I can run the person off first or whether they latch onto it. That’s when you know you’ve got somebody that wants to work with you.

[Crosstalk] [Laughter]

Brian: [1:00:30.0] Absolutely. Absolutely.

John: So, a point when my wife was like, Are you going to find a job already or what? [Crosstalk] [Laughter]

Brian: I would rather let you you or anybody know the truth up front. So that you know to run early than to figure something out later that you didn’t like. So, spill the beans up front for God’s sake. Let everybody know.

Cris: And I love this, I think this is really a great you know. And I just want to say you know, I ended up here for the same [1:01:00.0] kind of, in the same facet as I was working you know, as U.S. and Canada education manager for a large manufacturer, hair manufacturer. I was good at my job and bored at the same time. You know money was no longer interesting to me. And it was like I cannot you know, I really believe in this thing that we’re doing. And so I guess, I’ve say that because it was vision just the idea that we could have an impact, that we could put a dent in this [1:01:30.0] industry that’s been so amazing to my family to your guys families you know, to so many people that we care about and so as we kind of bring this this the context of this conversation vision. Full circle what are some final things that you want to offer to as salon owner maybe, like some final words on vision. Having one.

Brian: Let me just go here if I guy. Okay? Because there are people out there that are going to listen to this. Here is my reality right now. And thank you for the opportunity to share about this. Because the reality is, [1:02:00.0] you talked about how we want to make an impact within our community and then this situation, the community of hairstylist and salon owners across this country. Okay listen, this is one of the greatest professions anybody could live in. I am a blessed man to so far, I’ve had the life that I’ve had. And the reality is at this point, just the same way that you have talked about how I wanted to share the vision with you. I’ve been looking for people like you to come along beside me and I’ll say this in front of the world about you guys, this is so much fun for me to have [1:02:30.0] partners like you to work with. This is much more of a meaning than anything whatever success or not this business has. It’s the opportunity to share this commonalty with this goal to work together with you in order to accomplish something but also to those of you out there listening is, I hope that we have struck a chord because I’m looking for owners that say, I think this group has something that they can help me with. And these are the kind of people that I would love to work with. That’s what I’m looking for through one to forego [1:03:00.0] is those owners out there. I want to make this a strong industry a better industry. I want to elevate the platform of stylist and owners and the elevation of the platform of this industry where people see it more as a career. And you know what? I’m going to say this in front of the world that my lovely wife of 32 years. This at home trying to finish raising our boys that we have. Really. If you want to get down to it, I just bought into her vision from our earlier podcast, she shared with me when we were dating [1:03:30.0] about what she wanted to do with a hair salon one day as she was a brand-new hairstylist. So, I got her fever, her cold I guess is what she could say. I caught her vision. And so now, through the gifts any gifts that I’ve been given and working with guys like you and team members like we have within our organization. [Crosstalk] taking that and spreading that infection across this nation with other owners that have that same kind of vision or want to be bought into that vision. Maybe you just don’t have the tools to get there. [1:04:00.0] That’s what this is about for me.

Chris: That’s awesome. John closing?

John: I want to close with, I want to thank the 130 people that work you know, as stylist within this company you know because, not only has Brian been so gracious to allow me to be part of this, but so have the other 130 people. They were here before we were. You know, I haven’t felt something amazing [incomprehensible].

Chris: Yep, did all that. So, we hope you really enjoyed this podcast, this episode of shop talk brought to you by one to forego. [1:04:30.0] if you enjoyed it, click the subscribe button maybe take a screenshot of this and post it on your Instagram stories. If you really liked it share with your friends and thanks for listening and we’ll catch you on the next episode.

[1:05:00.0] Music

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