What type of leader are you?





Chris: Okay. To the beat. That was a lame clap, let’s try it again. Ready?

John: [Incomprehensible]

Chris: Damn fantastic. The clap means we have to get started, John. Is that the deal?

John: That’s right, it’s the time for the podcast to begin.

Chris: [00:00:30] Fantastic. Hey everybody, my name is Chris Sulimay, co-host of Shoptalk brought to you by 124go. I’m sitting here with a couple of good buddies. Number one, mister-

John: My name is still John Palmieri.


Chris: And we’re also here with our great friend-

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Brian: Brian Perdue, you have me captured again. So excited to be here.


Chris: Fantastic, and we’re the co-founders of 124go and we’ve actually just been sitting here in a planning meeting all day and we started to talk about [00:01:00] some content that we’re going to be bringing out to the world this year as we start to go around and work with hair salons and hairdressers. One of the big topics that certainly is a hot button for you, Brian, which kind of brought us to setting up and just go ahead and getting this on tape and recording,  is leadership. Leadership in the salon industry is a huge hot button. I mean John, we’ve sort of talk about this all day long. So, we wanted to sit down and capture a little bit of the magic that was coming [00:01:30] through you this morning so we can maybe help some salon owners, some salon leaders or maybe even some stylists that are just behind the chair, wanting to kind of lead themselves better, understand their own success patterns. John, maybe you want to set us up a little bit for the conversation and how we got to where we’re at and getting Brian to sit down and start talking again this morning.

John: I’m going to start off with a quote from John Maxwell that I’ve always liked, and he says that, “Leadership is nothing more than an influence,” [00:02:00]  and I like that quote because I think that for many of us, we’re trying to figure out what is that actually look like, the short answer is: how you influence the people around you? How do you influence your team? How do you influence your community? How do you influence this industry as a whole? I think when we have someone like Brian in the room, we get to speak to that because there is somebody who influences, highly influences me, right? He influences the team that we have within our company, [00:02:30] 130 stylists, and I know that we’re influencing our industry as a whole now because I see that.

John: Today, of course we’re working on our program so what we’re building to bring out into the world and Brian’s obviously a big part of that because leadership is something we really want to share with that industry as a whole.  We’re kind of working out the logistics of how we’re going to format this and what our classes would look like and as you said, “Hey, [incomprehensible] of that table, you can’t get out because he’s walking-


Brian: [00:03:00] I’m trapped.

John: You’re trapped?

Brian: Yeah.

John: Let’s get him on the podcast.

Chris: Yeah, fantastic. I’m want to start you with a question and really what brought us to the conversation and that’s just kind of a fact that even though you’ve built this large machine over the past 27-28 years and we have a ton of amazing hard-hitting stylists that are not only sitting underneath the [incomprehensible] location but at all six of the salons as well as developing stylists here in the academy by 124 [00:03:30] was founded as the process institute years ago, which really came from you starting to do it the old fashioned way which was apprenticing people, growing people and becoming a leader. We always talk about the mindset of a leader. You always talk about, really the heart of a leader and servant leadership but what we like to dig down to is kind of the before it was this machine and [00:04:00] you were a business owner, you were in business for a reason and you kind of had this enormous change of heart that really set you on a different path to help you help others in a different way through business. So you were sharing a little bit of that story earlier today and I wanted to kind of recapture that a little bit to get a snapshot of your mindset.

Brian: Well Chris, I’ll say this, the first thing I’ll recommend is for people to go back and listen to  our very [00:04:30] first podcast, because that really will give all of the details about that transformation in my heart,  because what I just said a minute ago was we were going to this podcast I guess really the first place is getting your heart in the right place as a leader sets the foundation that you got to have then  to move to the next step. What is the next step? But again, that first podcast, highly recommend it, I even went back myself to listen several times, like what did I say [00:05:00], because everything that I’m speaking is coming from the heart. And speaking of that, John talked about influence, I was thinking of that as you were mentioning John Maxwell and I’ve heard that statement before, and where my brain went with that is real influence of what people are looking for is what you do naturally when nobody else is really- when you don’t know they’re looking. In other words, who are you truely? Is that a leader, because that‘s all the influence that you’re going to have [00:05:30], you can [incomprehensible] as you listen, somebody out there can listen to me, and say “well,  what are the keys that I’ve got to do?” And you can go try to do it. But, if your heart is not in the right place, you’re really faking it. You see what I’m saying? And so the real influence comes if the heart is in the right place because people are watching your actions more than they’re listening to your words.

Chris: Absolutely.

Brian: That’s the corner stone to influence. So again, Chris, the first podcast will layout the program then the question becomes [00:06:00] what’s the next step.

Chris: Yeah.

John: For one, I think I’m hearing you say is that not only  leadership as a concept, as a skill set that’s important but it’s got to be authentic, it’s got to be real, it’s got to be something that people just don’t see you going through the motions of being a leader, they’re kind of smell it on you, they see it on you.

Brian: I think that is true with everything we- I’ve listened to you guys and Amber earlier podcast where there’s a marketing director, but I think the [00:06:30] world itself is looking for authenticity in everything. Is it real? From the way we market our business, the things that we say, who are you when the lights and cameras are down?

Chris: Yeah.

John: Right.

Brian: It’s not who are you, what is your stage presence, what is your persona. Show me behind the scenes, who you are really and is that something that I want to emulate. Something I want to follow.

Chris: One of things that I- I balance back and forth a lot knowing [00:07:00] that there’s the heart and then there’s the actions behind the heart and when you bring those two together, it’s really where the magic happens. Earlier today we started to talk about what are some steps that we can give people and what are some things that we can give people. You kind of stopped and pulled the conversation back which I liked because you said, “Look, if we’re going to talk about leadership we really can’t talk about that unless we talk about the mindset and that change of heart first.” [00:07:30] And I know for  you- and we talked about it a little on the first podcast but- what happened in you when you feel like you actually got yourself on a path to becoming a true leader? And I guess before you start to answer that-

Brian: Sure.

Chris: I’ll interrupt already and just say, 130 stylists, six salons, we graduate over 80 students a year at the commune academy by 124, I believe that being a leader in the industry today doesn’t mean [00:08:00] on your Instagram handle it says, “leader, entrepreneur, magic maker.” I think those are all beautiful things to aspire to be, but like there’s a difference between somebody that’s actually lived those things and somebody that are just maybe projecting which is all so fine to do. So, what makes you a leader to me it means the fact that what you get up and do, when you strap your boots on every day, you got 130 people or more that you’re kind of responsible for. [00:08:30]  That’s what gives me the thing that has made you earn the right to have this conversation with complete authenticity, but I know you didn’t always feel that way about yourself and I know you weren’t always that person.

Brian: And again, I won’t go back and spend a lot of time on it, but again on the first podcast shown here it used to be about planning. It’s like, I did things basically how do I get the money, but the transformation now was how do I spend my life being of service to others, that’s the big deal. [00:09:00] So, when you think about, I mean, I started… Guys listen, I told you before I started with my life in [incomprehensible] but the great Aha when I started in that leadership was the heart was in a place where I am here to serve you, meaning servant leadership for those of you who have ever heard that term before. Sounds sort of strange,  because I think a lot of people see leadership as, how do I get people to do what I want them to do-

Chris: Yeah, and I can wear a suit and drive[09:30:00]  a Ferrari, yeah.

Brian: So, getting people to do what I want them to do means, frankly that, it’s got to involve some coercion if that’s not what they want to do.

Chris: Right.

Brian: You got to figure out how to drag  them along.

Chris: Right.

Brian: Boy, what a heavy burden to wear on both sides for me to lead that way dragging people, kicking the string that’s not where they want to go. And what of the person in the other end? You see? But if your heart is in the place and where my [incomprehensible] I want to understand [00:10:00]  what you want out of your life. I can’t say that enough, truly, that really is my being. What do you want? Why are we sitting here today? Let’s get candid with each other. Chris, you moved down here from Philadelphia.

Chris: Yeah.

Brian:  Because you wanted something. Same thing that I wanted. John also, maybe [incomprehensible] speak in that, but you wanted  something that I wanted but really [incomprehensible] It’s not me trying to coerce you to say something, a song and a dance to get you to come down here [10:30:00]  because I’m trying to get you to do something I want you to do. I am. But ultimately it’s gotta be what you want. And so what I said earlier, I’m having such a blast today, I don’t really feel trapped and we joke about it, this is so much fun because we are on the same journey together. We talk about that with each other. And all of us have got that servant’s heart. So that is what I encourage people out there, they don’t understand, this is about being of service. It doesn’t mean, and I said this, sometimes it confuses me. It doesn’t mean [00:11:00]  that as leaders, that we don’t hold people accountable because people sometimes see servants as doormats.
No, that is the highest level you can attain is to be a servant to others. Again, in my belief system, Jesus showed us that example when he got down on his knees and washed the other’s feet, he was being an example and own purpose. I will do that. Not Wash their feet, but I will show people I’m not above sweeping the floor, [00:11:30] I’m not above  shampooing somebody’s head or whatever. Sometimes just to show others that I’ll do. So that’s where you start is the heart’s there. I am here. And so through that understand, the way I view things is there are two sets of customers in our company: There are the internal customers and the external customers. You see, the internal customers. For me, for you guys and all of our leadership staff are [00:12:00] our stylists and the team members that work within our company and so we are constantly working on how to serve, how to help these people achieve what they want in their life. And by the way that requires talking to them, getting to know them and them trusting you to share their hearts. Go ahead.

John: Something I just thought about is we’re talking about the process of leadership and influence, right? And we’ve talked about authenticity a minute ago. I think [00:12:30] one of the things that really stands out for me is not only is authentic leadership important for our ability to help influence people, but I just thought about it in the reverse for a minute. How ineffectual does leadership become when it is about not only am I trying to get you to do what I want, but for the other person, I’d never live up to their expectations. How can you possibly lead people if you’re putting them in a position where they’re always feeling a failure, right? [00:13:00] Because they could never live up to what you want them to do or what they think you want from them. I think it’s pretty powerful that good leadership can really grow a company. Poor leadership can just destroy the place and not because you’re not effective, but because you’re actually destroying your company from the inside.

Chris: It’s funny because I’m thinking as you’re talking, I’m reflecting back to being 19 years old. My brother used to bootleg Keune hair cosmetics into the country [00:13:30] because they didn’t have distribution yet. Fast forward a year or two, they get some distribution. There’s a man, his name is Nico. He’s the first ever Keune salesmen in the country.  I’ve actually had conversations with George Keune Senior about Nico- great guy. But I’m 19 years old. I’m having a conversation with him. He says to me, what do you want to do one day? And at the time my answer to him was I want to… And I didn’t even know what this meant at the time. [00:14:00] It’s really actually a bizarre story knowing what happened to me full full circle. But at the time I said, I want to be the person that helps affect style at Keune. I like, I want to be the person who does that because that was like my hero job at the time. It was this thing. Fast forward I ended up becoming the Keune Academy and technical director for North America, I don’t know, 25 years later, completely really by accident. [00:14:30] I probably wasn’t even qualified for that job. But what -if I look back-  the one skill that I have developed over the years and the realization that I have was as a 19 year old, I kind of meant I wanted to run stuff. In taking that job and doing that job for, you know, a year and a half, becoming a part of the team member and then moving to onto a different company. What I realized is now that director position [00:15:00] or vice president position, whatever, you know, whatever is actually about serving your team and putting them in the right place so they can grow, develop and flourish.

Brian: Well that’s what I was going to say Chris, you see what you said. You had a vision of what you wanted. Well, here’s the deal. We all can have passion and we do have passionate, in thinking about some of the things that we can do. And what’s interesting years ago I studied about different… [00:15:30]  There are seven different gifts that, that people can be born with and you tend to have two or three that are the highest gifts. And where you are with your giftedness is what determines where you will find passion in the things you do. Now see as a leader, the important thing is to understand that this exist. There are actually seven gifts and there are actually four personality types and there’s a lot of inner workings there. But years ago, [00:16:00] as a new leader, I went and I studied just by chance at a seminar and it was more of me going, I think, well, you know, it was a marriage seminar that taught this, but it’s like a light bulb went there sitting on the, “oh my gosh! Now I understand why people act the way they do.” Once I understood this, I got a book, read it. And so, one of the analogies that I use as a leader is you have to think of yourself…  just watched football yesterday, we’re in the playoffs right now [00:16:30] during the timeframe of this podcast. And the coach obviously is an integral part. Well that coach, is each one of us as leaders. Now I guess one of the biggest responsibilities of that coach is to align players. Now, usually this starts way back when they’re children, you’ll have coaches all the way down in the youth league and they’ll start placing them in different positions based on the attributes they have. For instance, a tight end, you tend to want [00:17:00] a guy that’s fairly tall and athletic because he’s got to be able to block who’s larger, but he’s also tall and can run fast so he can catch the ball. [incomprehensible] Those guys don’t move very fast. They’re like tanks going down the room, but they have a specific thing that they do well because of the way they’re built. And so if a coach placed people not understanding this just in positions, just all over the place, imagine what that could look like if your office of linemen were at wide receiver and your wide receiver  [00:17:30] was the offensive guard, wouldn’t it be a [incomprehensible] that didn’t work very well together. And frankly all the people on that team would be miserable because they wouldn’t be in a position where they could win. And so, anyway, as leaders, we need to understand these things now, would you like to hear what some of these are?

Chris: Well that. And that’s the reason why we’re sitting down here because I think there’s some specificity that comes along with, you know, I think there’s a lot of people that really do have their heart in the right place. [00:18:00] They love their team, they love the industry, they love the salon. They just haven’t learned to or they’re just growing to the point where they can identify attributes inside of other people. And they’re at that point, they’re asking that question. And the other thing is, is giving those people that kind of next level place to be. So how do you identify leadership and what are those seven?

Brian: Well, in no particular order, the first thing I want you to hear, everybody here to hear, [00:18:30] is that none of these gifts are better than another. It’s just the way we’re actually made and frankly they’re all made to work together, because there’s so many things that have to be done in the world. They require so many different types of people that again, I believe in a higher power. I believe in a God that made us all with this master plan. And it’s so amazing that all of these different people are made and we’re supposed to work together to accomplish things. So,  again, no particular order. The first is what I call a “perceiver” or “profit”. [00:19:00] And this is a person that is frankly very black and white. They love to know the rules, what are the rules, and when they speak, they tend to speak the truth. So sometimes you may say, this person has sort of a [crosstalk][chuckle] talk. You get those people on your team that have no filter and they’re always calling out, you know, the, what everybody’s supposed to be doing. It’s probably because they are a perceiver. That’s the way that they are made. I’m married to one of those and my wife always [00:19:30] is bringing me around to”Brian, what’s the truth here? What are the facts? What are we supposed to do?” These people need to know the guidelines. You need a handbook, for instance, with the rules and everything from the way you train people, the way you service your clients. How do we do it? Otherwise it can be miserable for them in the environment. That’s the perceiver. The next to my highest actually I’ll go to that one next is the “administrator” and the administrator is a natural problem solver. [00:20:00] And so I can’t tell you why, I haven’t even realized this about myself until after the seminar years ago, that I can sit and I love to listen within a group setting. I listen to problems and people… A lot of times people can go off in a million directions, but what I’m doing is I’m analyzing the situation and finally when I speak, it’s usually “guys, let’s talk for a second. I think first we should do this. Next year we should do this. Next is this.” So that’s the gift of an administrator, so natural problem solver. [00:20:30] The next one is going to be my next gift and so I’ll talk about myself here, is an “exhorter” or another word for that is an “encourager”, and so think of these people, when they speak they speak from encouragement and so that’s one of the things is like, “come on guys” and a minute ago, I don’t know Chris, whether it was you or John, but you talked about the way you talk to your people. An encourager is never going to talk to a person from the standpoint of, “look what you’re doing wrong” or “look at this.” You’re going to say, “wow, you got that! You’re great. [00:21:00] I knew you could do that” and that’s an encourager. I laugh and say a lot of times for those out there that maybe where cheerleaders, you’re usually the flyer on top “Yay come on team! We can do it” or coaches or those types of personalities. But when we speak, we just naturally speak from encouragement. Some people are  teachers and that’s very self explanatory. A “teacher” is the most fulfilled when they can share knowledge that they have, especially to somebody that seems like they’re [00:21:30] very interested in learning it. Now in our setting. For instance, in our company, I have a cosmetology school and John, you may speak to the… You’ve operated within the school as a leader before. But there are certain people that are stylists though, that just love to be teachers. Now I’ll say this, this isn’t always the truth, but sometimes they’re not necessarily your top performers within this organization. They may be very technical at what they do, [00:22:00] but just from that outgoing, I’m making the most money kind of situation. And where the biggest clientele, they’re not always that, but boy, when they go to a classroom they can set it on fire and they get energized when they feel like they’re helping us students to grow. Have you witnessed that?


John: Yeah, I think that there’s always kind of like this disconnect between, sometimes being a stylist and what it’s like to work in the school as an educator because they’re really two different things. You know, while I’m teaching hairdressing, yes you are. [00:22:30] But the skills and the leadership and the joy that comes from teaching are not the same skills and leadership and joy that comes from doing a haircut and making people feel pretty about themselves nice about themselves. I think one of the things that ,w e had Sally Rogerson on the other day and what she said, you know, I think rings true for a lot of teachers, it’s almost problem solving in an intricate kind of way, right? I’m going to figure out what it is that makes you tick. And I’m going to create a program [00:23:00] that gets this information in your head the best way because when that light bulb goes off and I see that light bulb go off, that’s what gives me joy. That’s what gives me passion. And I don’t want to paint the world with too white of a brush. But that’s generally speaking that somebody whose money driven because that’s not a money driven thing, right?

Brian: Yeah. So anyway, so I look for that understanding of that is one of the seven gifts, I look for that within my ranks because [00:23:30]  it’s not one of the most prevalent things from hairstylists. I’ll talk about hairstylists in just a minute. Now move to move to the next one. Now, this is my personal last of my top three I have already said, for instance, with me, I’m an administrator, I’m an exhorter, well the  next one is the “giver”. And a giver is a person that likes to help meet the needs of others. That’s when they’re the most fulfilled is when they see that somebody else has a need and they can help fulfill it. And it’s not always just a financial need. [00:24:00] It can be any, can be an emotional need, it can be any kind of need that somebody has, that’s when you really are fulfilled is when you can help meet others’ needs. The next one is the gift of being a “server” and a server personality is the person that likes to know where they’re needed. They tend to want to be very well educated at what they do. When they do things, they want to do it well. [00:24:30] Usually the server does not like the spotlight. They tend to be behind the scenes and they tend to be very loyal people. When I describe a server, a lot of times I’ll talk about church. This is the lady in the dining room at churches, back in the kitchen cooking. She just wants to hear me come by and say, “Kathy, that was the best fried chicken I’ve ever had.” That makes her day because she is there, “Where do you need me?”. And these people, [00:25:00] I surround myself with servers because they feel great honestly, that they can help me accomplish tasks. I can go out there in the forefront, quote “and slay the dragons.” They clean up the mess and they know because I tell them, “thank you so much.” I cannot live without them. I love servers. They are the backbone and the bread and  butter of an organization.

Chris: Well and here’s what I want to flip side that for just a second, because if I mishear that [00:25:30] or if I’m in the wrong mindset and I listen to that, it’s like I surround myself with these people to achieve my goals. And here’s the reality of it. Because I’ve got a person like that in my head who works in this organization who I just think of as a backbone. They want to do that job so bad. That becomes their purpose. And so as I’m listening to this conversation, you know, I’m thinking about one of the things I love about the salon industry [00:26:00] and that is there’s so many different things that you can do inside this industry. And I learned that from stepping outside of being behind the chair. You know, there were times, I remember actually in my 16th year of doing hair at my salon in Tampa at some point I started to look at the floor, the four foot square that I had spent 16 years standing inside of and I started to ask myself, [00:26:30] “is this all there is in this business?” Now, You know, we were successful at the time, so it wasn’t about success. It wasn’t about, you know, how do I make more. But I started to ask the question, is this all there is? And inside of this industry I would argue that 80 percent of hairstylists probably don’t know that there are other things that they can do and feel really super fulfilled [00:27:00] and be really successful in their own idea of what success means. And as you know, you’re kind of painting this picture, I’m listening and different people are popping up in my head and I’m placing them in their own particular job. I have a quick, funny story. [crosstalk] Recently [laughter][00:27:30], I was talking with somebody who does a job that I used to do that I hated. This particular person happens to have filled that role. Not only is doing it far better than I ever did, but it’s their dream job, right? The fact that I hated that position, as I listened and learned from you, makes me realize like it wasn’t a fit for my gifts, my, the thing that I do, [00:28:00] and when I listened to you describe these things, you know, teacher, exhorter, giver, like boom, boom, that’s it. Don’t hide me in a place where I have to do the administrative type work because I’m not really tankable  actually [chuckle]

Brian: That is what happens and understand and I still got one gift to go, but hear this, again, we’re talking about leadership today. And so again, when you mentioned about stylists don’t understand all of the things out there  that… Part of the job of the leader [00:28:30] is to help identify and open the door. I call it “career pathing”. And so I’ve understood that. I’ve understood that from day one. My job as the leader is to continue to look for different career path options to understand the type of people that I’m leading, based on these gifts that we’re talking about today and helping to guide them to that career ladder in their position, think  in terms of the coach with the team, [00:29:00] the career ladder or the different positions that exist on the team and then these seven gifts or the or the gifts that people have that are best suited where they will find passion in what they do, and so as the coach, I’ve created the positions, the career ladder. Now I’m identifying the attributes through the gifts that these people have, if I understand those and then I’m helping to place them because when I put them [00:29:30]  in the positions that they can excel based on their gifts, that’s where passion comes from. Then if I can lead and teach them to link passion and purpose, that’s where life comes alive because purpose is linking it to how do I use this passion to serve others? You see, isn’t it amazing how these building blocks build on each other.

Chris:  And it’s so cool. If you’re a super small salon, who’s my social media guru, who’s my internal educator, who is my recruiter that goes [00:30:00] out the hair schools and gives free classes, like there’s so many cool things you can do even if you’re not in a huge organization.

Brian: This is what in a nice way drives me crazy, because I just want to take people and say “don’t you understand?” But when I see people trying to do it all themselves, that are leaders, you are robbing the joy of the people that you’re leading because you’re trying to hog it all for yourself. Now, it may not be because you think… [00:30:30] Sometimes it’s because you think you’re the only one who can do it. You’re wrong. Sometimes maybe you don’t trust others. Get over it because they need to fail after you’ve taught them, let them fail and then pick them up and say, what did you learn from that? Let’s move to the next step and try again. Because that is what makes people buy into it. Makes people want to be with you as the leader, as you give them that latitude to fail. Okay? All right, so, hey, can we move to number seven? [00:31:00]

Chris: Yeah.

Brian: Because these are important people. Okay. They all reported the number seven, guys , is the gift of compassion and I call compassionate people they’re the nerve endings of the world. And I don’t know how they do it, but I’ll say for instance, they might have a friend that has a loved one that’s very sick. In fact, maybe they might even be on their deathbed. That compassionate person can actually go and hug and cry with that person [00:31:30] and console them and they can be fulfilled. They’re not happy about it, but they have fulfillment in that they could show compassion to somebody. Now, listen, I am so clumsy with that and in fact I can’t do it. You know what? It doesn’t mean I’m not compassionate. But guess what? I can’t do it guys because I’m an encourager. I want to tell you it’s going to be okay and when it’s not potentially going to be okay, I don’t know what to do with it. And so, I have to buckle up so to speak, [00:32:00]  to make myself do it because I’m so awkward with it. Where that true person that God has gifted what compassion goes and they just hug and cry, no questions asked and they can actually be fulfilled they’ve got to do that. Now I got to say this. Okay, now each job is best suited from a standpoint of a person. Really funny, passion in it typically to two or three of these gifts.

John: So, you know, that’s what I followed right up to the question I have. So I look at [00:32:30] these seven you’ve share with us,  and you’re saying maybe we’ve got two or three of those that work in combination with us. So I just get to pick the free I like?

Brian:  Well, you can, it doesn’t mean you’re gonna be, you’re not picking the right one. If you know yourself, hopefully you’d get the right one.

John: And so I guess a lot of  people want to know then how do I know which one? I mean, how did you discover which ones you were? How did you get to know where your strengths lie? Now you can help out others. I’m looking at him going, “I want to be this, I want to be that” and you know… [laughter][incomprehensible][00:33:00]

Brian: Well, John, let me again, let me go back to the way that I see this and what I believed to be real is that I was made and  you were made. I don’t think I was by chance and you and I really didn’t get an option in that. Okay, so you were made, I believe, by creator that endowed you with certain of these gifts as he did me. And again, when I go back to saying because of that belief system, the way that I see that working is that he did that because [00:33:30] he… All these different things. We’re supposed to work together in unity to accomplish the tasks we do. I wouldn’t even get into all that stuff about why this work and get walking because we’re not working in unity, but when we understand this and we embraced each other, so you don’t really get a choice. Okay?

John: But I think what’s really key though is you always, I think you say this all the time, they’re gifts, they are given to you to reach [inaudible], but hopefully help others reach [incomprehensible] too.

Chris: [00:34:00] Absolutely. Absolutely. Look, I think about this all the time. In school, when I was a kid, I got sent to the office daily. Literally daily, right? Horrible student because all I wanted to do is get up and talk. I used to…

John: “Used to?”


Chris:  I used to laugh… And now here we are on a podcast that we decided to start. Why? Because we think there’s other people out there like us. But I used to laugh when I was [00:34:30] getting sent around the world as a international business [crosstalk], speaking for a living. Because that’s what I’m good at. You were asking me to write that stuff down. It took me a full year to get my thoughts out into a book. Right? That definitely not a gift of mine. Super painful. You know, it got done. But the reality is oftentimes I recognize that on a daily basis, like you know, my gift of encouragement. The fact that, you know, I mean, that’s just the thing [00:35:00], I don’t really try it that I just, it’s just a natural thing.

Brian: People that aren’t that way, we won’t get that right, that is a gift.

Chris: But compassion, I feel super silly when somebody’s having a moment, you know, it’s not a yeah I can see somebody walk up and-

John: it’s like magic and you’re like how did they do that?


Chris: What just happened there? Yeah, they just hugged that person. I didn’t even want to touch them. I wanted to stay on the other side… I wanted to leave.

John: Not only did they hug them, they hugged them back. [00:35:30] Where if I’d walk up to you and hugged you in that moment, you’d be like, “John [inaudible].”

Chris: Yeah, and so talk about, you know, to a salon owner about identifying or maybe a couple of tips on how, you know, how do I sit back and take a team, maybe that’s not there or even my own mind, how do I start to take a look at my team and my business differently and what are some starter points that I can start to do to maybe help elevate my team. We talk a lot about career pathing here because we have one and we’re even elevating that with 124Go [00:36:00], but you know, what are some, just some starter things if this is the first time I’m ever hearing  this?

Brian: Okay, good. Well the first thing I’ll say is through 124Go, one of my goals with this is I actually have testing sheets that hopefully through some of the seminars and things we’re going to do and maybe even online in the future, we’ll be able to post  these tasks that people can take and that I can teach on a deeper level. I would take it deeper to know what to do with these. So that’s the first thing I’ll say. Yeah. This side.


Chris: [00:36:30] And by the way, our site will be launching on March 1st  and we will have downloadable pdfs for, you know, a lot of the topics we’re covering.

Brian: Right. Now through that, there’s also what I call “occupational testing sheets”. Now this is interesting and people can try me on this once they get these, but what you’ll find is a large majority of stylists are: The three attributes are server, compassion, giver. It’s amazing. [00:37:00] You may find some little bit higher and teacher again as teachers. Some of the lower ones are going to be administrative, things like that, but the but we’ll have that available in the future. I would say first though, just if you were starting today, is talk to your people. People know what they like. You see, you’ve got to listen, and you mentioned earlier you talked to somebody way back in the day where you were  hoping to be the [crosstalk] or something, and so the leader needs to listen. People will tell you what they want, so just start with that even if you don’t even understand what that is [00:37:30] until you get the tasting and we learned more later on, but at least listen to what they want and help them to do that. Then the next thing would be to ask yourself, what are my career paths here within my company, within my salon? What are the options that I have? And also analyze a lot of times you’ll say, I don’t have any. Then you’ve got to look at yourself and say, well, what all am I trying to control? All right, every salon needs in very first you need an educational team because we need to learn [00:38:00] more technically. And so start by identifying those that are good technically and asked them, would you like to share that with others?

Chris: Yeah. Who’s your teacher. And we actually believe together right now that we think you need to become an educational company as a salon. Meaning really take control of that and the internal education. We just know that you’ll be so surprised by what you already know. If you’ll start to share it with each other.

Brian: Yeah.Next, we’ll be on our front end, you know, as far as if we have a desk [00:38:30] in our salon and with customer service, do you have somebody in the position that really is an exemplary leader, whether you have made them a leader or not, do they exemplify and  do the things when it comes to great customer service and they seem to have a heart of service. Ask them if they want to help you in training new people that come in and then you’ve got to find somebody, maybe they would be good at setting up the curriculum or that would be good at finding curriculum. Say, well, what are we going to teach them? Because you’ve got to have documentation. You’ve got to have a curriculum that you follow through teaching them. [00:39:00] So if you’re busy behind the chairs, the owner, you’ve got to find others to enlist and you know, this is what happens. I’m gonna say this again. If you identified the right person that likes this stuff, you are bringing value to them. They are feeling valued by you if you get them to do these things. And the last thing is like, look on the marketing side, especially with this younger crowd: who likes to do social media? Who has a great instagram page?  Would you like to head that up for our salon? [00:39:30] You know, get them involved. John, you wanted to say something?

John: I just got to say, it just goes back to the – one of the things we talked about earlier, which is you’re feeding someone’s passion, you’re making them feel valued, right? You’re giving them something that they could succeed at and you know, if you’re working with a leader who makes you feel valued, who helps you feel successful,  who helps you feel fulfilled inside, you know, why wouldn’t you follow that person almost anywhere.

Brian: And as a leader [00:40:00], what a fantastic life. What a sense of purpose that you get to have in your own life as a leader if you see yourself helping people to find who they are, what a life worth living if you can do that.

Chris: This is a fantastic discussion. So really this is a talk on the seven gifts of leadership, you know, that’s something that Brian lives and has been, you know, throughout the company has been teaching John and myself and you know, we’re working on this as well, as salon leaders. And so,  with that said, as we kind of bring this podcast to a close, [00:40:35] any final thoughts you want to leave us with?
Brian: Wow, great conversation. Something I’m so passionate about and I’ve had this stuff stored up for years, and I want to just go so much further with this because it’s so important. When people understand as leaders again, the way I see it as we do have other people that have entrusted part of their lives to us and if we get to help them find their way and as I get older, I’m 57 [00:41:00] coming up this year.

Chris: You look good.

Brian:  Thank you buddy. I appreciate it. I’ll take all I can get. [laughter]. I really appreciate that. But when I look at my greatest joy through this career has been the people’s lives. And I’ll see that I’ve impacted those people, that I’ve helped to find passion in their lives. Even John, you’ve said this before, and I agree,  sometimes this industry, really just gives people direction in their lives something they’ve never had before. [00:41:30]

John:  I firmly believe that this industry saves people’s lives.

Brian: And so wow. Think about as a leader when you think of it that way. Isn’t that something we’re doing? So, thank you so much for letting me share this. I’ve got more to unpack with this. We’ve got another whole podcast, hopefully Chris to come back about personality types because I’ll help teach that and how to inner blend that with these gifts that we talked about today. So thank you out there everybody for taking this time with me and I can’t wait to talk to you again soon.

Chris: Fantastic. John, closing thoughts?

John: [00:42:00] No. I’m just excited that we get to hear… I mean, we get to hear this information a lot. Let me rephrase that. We don’t hear it so much. We get to see it everyday, we get to be in this environment. We, we get to grow within it. It’s a treat to hear it and put it on tape.

Brian: And I’ve got one more thing that I have to say this because I, I sometimes our [incomprehensible] during the podcast [crosstalk][laughter][00:42:30] somebody could have taken  the role away and you’ve mentioned, so you stopped me a few minutes ago and said, well, what about servers. Well, that could sound to certain people like you’re trying to get people… Let me say this, I, I’ll tell you that, in a good way again about servers is they aren’t looking for the spotlight and they are really blessed to be able to be able to support to somebody they want to follow-

Chris: It’s such a powerful position.

Brian: And what I wanted to finish on my side, it’s saying, and the thing that they want to know the most is that they are [00:43:00] appreciated. So all of you out there that have served me or this company in any way. Thank you. That’s it.

Chris: That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. Now you just always [crosstalk].

John: Let me ask you for your review [laughter].

Chris:  I will say I’ll tag a closing thought, which I usually daughnt on, is that when I unknowingly [00:43:30] started to change my why behind showing up for work, I got uncomfortable and I stayed in uncomfort for a long time because I didn’t have anybody to show me what a next step would look like in the way that we talk about nowadays. So if you’re a salon person and you’re listening to this and you’re going, okay, what did any of  have to do with me. Maybe it was a little above your head, I guess I would say, you know, relisten, ask yourself where do I fit in this and what could [00:44:00] be bringing to my team? Because oftentimes when I’m talking to stylists nowadays that are sometimes they’ll come and they’ll say, when are we going to have more education or can we do a little bit more of this? And a lot of times I think they’re surprised when I go, actually, why don’t you teach that because you’re probably, you probably know everything you need to know about that, but that thing that’s, that uncomfort inside of you is really, it’s just a call go and like, I really need to share like I need to get this out. I need to matter and for some people to matter is to teach. [00:44:30] And so that, for, that was my calling, you know, that was my experience. I went to education until I was gonna throw up. And then I realized, you know what I want to like give this back to the new kids. I’ve finally earned the right, you know, when do we earn the right? I don’t think we know, but I finally earned the right that I can start to share this with somebody who’s a few steps behind me. And so with that said, if you liked what you heard on today’s podcast, please hit that subscribe button. And John, there’s something else I think we need them to do.

John: I want you to write a review. [00:45:00] I want you to go online to your podcast listening App and write a wicked good review. My personal preference is five stars [laughter], if you can make that happen.


Brian: And share it with your friends. There’s a lot of good stuff here guys. Thank you so much.

Chris:  Fantastic. So you can find us on instagram at @124.Go. Our website should launch March 1st. So be looking for that. And again-

John: Youtube.

Chris: [00:45:30] Yes, that’s right. Forgot about that. You can find us and see our behind the scenes stuff. So we do something really cool on Youtube, which is we film a lot of our meetings and we just put them out there. So it’s us in real life, unscripted , doing what we’re doing on a regular basis, filming. Brian and John’s on there  so it’s a beautiful thing. So on Youtube it’s 124Go, we really appreciate you listening and until next time, we will see you later.